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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 13:42:22 GMT -5
Post by KG on Jan 16, 2009 13:42:22 GMT -5
Hi Xav,
Thanks for the pre-prehistoric fill in on all that. I hate I missed all that, and the fact is I am very young, and even the angels I know well are so much younger than these occurances.
So you could probably answer a question that is burning in my mind. The story of Adam and Eve. Did you by any chance see that? There are other slightly varying versions than the one in our bible of that, and it is a very very old mesopotamian ledgend, more or less copied by Moses to describe the early events. What really happened there, and was the curse that resulted from that the rise of the veil? It seems to me that when God said they would live by the sweat of their brow, and have pain, that was the begining of the physical as we know it. Was that story litteral? Was Adam really the first man, or had there been previous creations which didn't work out or had some disasterous ending? Was the world physical before the fall of man?
I can see that reasoning. How were you constructed. Did you have a mother?
I think the aeons came about at different times, like generations. Some of them are older than others too. Some are no doubt younger than you.
As for me, I don't know what I would be called, besides a madonna. Not Mary though. I was far from Bethleham incarnation wise when Jesus was born. I was in Alexandria, but I came into being as part of that team. The people of dark ages France, knew there was more than one Madonna. They painted everyone that was seen. Someone apparently saw me in the 1200's or 1300's. There is a painting of me in Avignon, which shows my cloak, and it is me. There are other drawings and paintings too from around that time, and in that place. I was incarnate in the area also just prior to that time. I was a Cathar, and it is likely that the paintings were influenced by that religion, judging from the time and the area.
I know I am a daughter of Sophia, and that they refer to us as Sophians. I don't think of myself as an Aeon, just a mother... Madonna means mother. Mercy is described as a childless mother, always adopting those in need.
Yes, the word Aeon is new to us, translated out of Sanscrit, rather than Hebrew or Greek. The Gnostic Gospels were transcribed in sanscrit, because Mary and Thomas went east rather than north with Paul and Peter. I think they corespond to the Hebrew concept of Kaballism, Serophs. They have wisdom, and Knowledge also among their numbers so I figure it is the same thing being described.
It is very hard for me to know the origin of things, but with Demurge being described as being over a group of angels... (I doubt he was ever over ALL the angels, and you if you are that old, would be older than Demurge probably. I don't think you would have been part of his group.) and some angels complaining of abuse, I figure that must explain that. God would never abuse his angels in the way. He isn't that way, but the actions that have been described did sound like what the spirit I called Demurge did to Heretical Christians during the dark ages. He was incarnate in some popes and inquisitors. I remember him. He was either incarnated in them or possesssed them. There is a fine line there sometimes, and I can't really speculate which was the case. He had control of them at the time though.
Anyway I have no way of knowing whether Demurge (that word is unique to Sanscrit also, and not hebrew) is one in the same with what I encountered in the Crusades against the Cathars. I don't know for sure, but his actions are very similar to what some of the angels I know both on line and astrally, complain of from the leader. They were led to believe God ordered their mistreatment, but we all know better than that now, and many of them knew it at the time, but they were in no position to say so. No one listens to prisoners.
Overall I have idendified a very high level negative spirit which I call Demurge. He impacts world events, but he doesn't seem like anything in the story of Lucifer. At least he doesn't remind me of that. I suppose it is possible, but if so he isn't what people think of. He doesn't like sin at all. He tries to be holier than thou, and he has no aversion to churches, or crosses. He likes them. He manipulates religion and government to be cruel, and war like.
He fits the scripture in Matt 23 when he says that the pharasees make their prostelites doubly a child of hell, and they are like their father the devil. The one I call Demurge is the same spirit that was in the Pharasees who plotted against Jesus. That is the thing I am talking about. Right there. Is that Lucifer? That is what I oppose. That thing that pretends to be godly and is vicious. It has the capacity to form a grand plot, involving many people, and it influences good people to follow corrupt leaders blindly, sometimes out of fear, and other times because they are completely convinced they are right. He was in the inquisions, the Crusades on both sides, and he was in Nazi Germany. Is that Lucifer?
Demurge believed that he was God. He thought of himself as the creator. He was so deluded that he thought there WAS no one higher, at least according to some books.
I know that the spirit I fight believes he is righteous, but he is nasty and war like. He is cruel beyond words and he sanctions torture. Do you think that I am seeing Lucifer, because I was under the impression he was an aeon. He doesn't have wings. IDK... It is possible that he is the same or an afiliate, but Demurge pretends to fight Lucifer. He went to great lenghts to build up Lucifer as the problem. It is strange behavior if that is the case... I mean this guy invented the witch hunt... why would Lucifer want a witch hunt?
There are many many angels. Lucifer won a third of them over at the time of his revolt.
Well I know you would not be building him up. I am sure he has his power. I just wonder where he is, unless he is one in the same as Demurge.
Where does Lucifer live? Demurge continued to live in heaven, but was also on earth... There is no mention of him in hell, nor from what I know of him did he live in hell.
Yep... in my experience all negs are deceptive, if they can get away with it.
You are in a position to know more than some. I have seen the entity we are talking about. I recognized him from the crusifixion and from the dark ages inquisitor we killed during the time of the Albegenian Crusades. I know what he wants, and I know how his energy feels. I don't know Lucifer, but I would have thought he would have felt different than this. Is Lucifer a legalist? I imagine there is a name for him in hebrew, and or greek, but I do not know it because the only word I have is sanscrit. He could be lucifer, but if so he isn't what one would expect of Lucifer.
I think that the Jews were superstitious about saying or writing the names of certain beings. Jews still spell God G-d because they are afraid to write out even the translated name of God. I suspect that the name they want to say when they say Satan, is so unspeakable they use the generic term Adversary.
I sure wouldn't know.
I completely agree. God is in control, and he uses us as we are willing to be used, but opposition is nothing to worry about because we are more than Conquorors.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 16:25:46 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Jan 16, 2009 16:25:46 GMT -5
These is some thing we disagree upon, you have your peception who and what lucifer is, and I have my own, each shaped by what we know, have seen and experienced.
You also are extremely jaded towards lucifer as well as holding never ending grudges, so your opinion of him is skewed, as all our ours are of everyone.
You differentiate between an aeon an angel/archangel, in my perception there is no difference, aeons are not older then others, in their own perception and understanding perhaps this is how they view them selves.
An aeon representing an aspect of god, all of His creations did that, each a reflection of god, each reflecting some thing different, a different angle.
To draw such a generalization as this one is just silly, lets just attribute all adversaries to lucifer, demiurge, satan, etc. It seems its just your way of simplifying some thing you can not fully understand, perceive and or see, to a smaller form you can better grasp and work with in regards to your own confusion and growth.
You tend to claim your older then lucifer, yet your own existence was not until creation itself came into play. But you, and others who were created in the "darkness/void/city outside existence" came to be when you were given consciousness of your individuality and a will to act. When the many "aeons" as you call them all came to be, not one before any other, but much like the very thoughts of "god" all being given there own free will and free choice to take their own path and forms. And you all met with one another in unity, was not until later as each "aspect" grew more so that they began to further shape their own "perception" of what "god" is based upon the very aspect of god that they were birthed from.
When you have such a deep hatred as you do towards Lucifer, in your perception it would be outlandish and truly unacceptable, I feel you would have a hard time coming to accept such a thing if you ever came to see that it was true. But only time will tell, now wont it? All are part of "gods" plan, and Lucifer is carrying out his role so to speak.
On a side note, as cloaked in shadows as you tend to make yourself out to be, your rather bright, much like a cobalt flame. However pride shines through you in rather large amounts, then again you spent quite a lot of time cultivating it with your hatred you just can't seem to let go. Hatred runs deep in you, and I do not reference to only Lucifer, I reference to you as an individual, it shines through you brightly.
Then again just what I perceive.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 16:54:09 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Jan 16, 2009 16:54:09 GMT -5
Your entire defense is hinged upon the illusion that "sophia" is wisdom incarnate. Do you honestly believe this? Well if thats the case, Lucifer is the bearer of all the light in existence, thus he could never do some thing counter productive to the "gods" plan, for he is aware and illuminated to all things, after all his name means the bearer of light, but I'm sure you knew that. Ah so were going analyze the very social dynamics of what defines teenage rebellion. Teenage rebellion is not restricted to one genre of influence or motivation, in large part it is due to the underdeveloped pre frontal cortex which all adolescents experience as the neural pathways are still being developed from the pre frontal cortex. Adolescents also have a very skewed view of how others are interacting with them, and a large majority of the time they will interpret it as hostile on a biological level due to the imbalance of their still developing neural receptors, and consequently with their neural substrates. Moving, I digress, Sophia is the epitome of a teenage girl, who didn't like what she was told, who believed like most adolescents that she knew better, that she was smarter then she was being given credit for, that ultimately what she was doing was good and "right". Oh but dad has been around the block more times then she, and wouldn't you know she didn't listen to pops. So she sneaks out of the house without permission, soon after shes calling for dear old dad to come pick her up, because she got a flat and doesn't have a ride home. Well like all adolescents shes got things to learn and an ego to get under control, sophia, demiurge, there all the same, none is better then the other. Like teenagers, each thinking they understand existence on a level like no other, that their way is the way that is the way that the "god" has laid out. But they find out eventually, its their own way they created, and often more so then not, its a dead end, same for sophia, same for demiurge, same for satan, same for George bush, same for bob the plumber, Cassey the car sales woman. With all due respect Cassiel, you're analysis and interpretation of teenage rebellion is more based on Westernized thought than anything and you're missing the other half. The human developmental spectrum extends beyond the westernized scientific analysis and view. Perhaps if teenagers were given a broader view of how they can develop themselves instead of being told the status quo is what they need to achieve, then things would be a little different. That's where their neurotic behavior stems from.What you speak of, is the typical neurotic way of life 99% of westerners experience. And THAT is where your lop-sided half pint view comes into play. Westernized psychology? Its from the world association of psychology. Unless you are not human, your brain goes through this, as well as the biological imbalances. Neurological psychology is not exclusive to the west, nor is it based upon the west, it is world wide, because the human body and brain is universal, not region exclusive.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 17:06:58 GMT -5
Post by stonerwolf on Jan 16, 2009 17:06:58 GMT -5
With all due respect Cassiel, you're analysis and interpretation of teenage rebellion is more based on Westernized thought than anything and you're missing the other half. The human developmental spectrum extends beyond the westernized scientific analysis and view. Perhaps if teenagers were given a broader view of how they can develop themselves instead of being told the status quo is what they need to achieve, then things would be a little different. That's where their neurotic behavior stems from.What you speak of, is the typical neurotic way of life 99% of westerners experience. And THAT is where your lop-sided half pint view comes into play. Westernized psychology? Its from the world association of psychology. Unless you are not human, your brain goes through this, as well as the biological imbalances. Neurological psychology is not exclusive to the west, nor is it based upon the west, it is world wide, because the human body and brain is universal, not region exclusive. Not psychology, mentality. psychology is part of it, sure, but dont think psychological analysis presides over psychological processes. it is the way you think. you think in a manner that promotes linearity and rigid forms like cubes and squares. The universe is a multifaceted figure, wherein linear thought and "rational" thought are both illogical and irrational. but that's just my two pennies.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 17:26:10 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Jan 16, 2009 17:26:10 GMT -5
Westernized psychology? Its from the world association of psychology. Unless you are not human, your brain goes through this, as well as the biological imbalances. Neurological psychology is not exclusive to the west, nor is it based upon the west, it is world wide, because the human body and brain is universal, not region exclusive. Not psychology, mentality. psychology is part of it, sure, but dont think psychological analysis presides over psychological processes. it is the way you think. you think in a manner that promotes linearity and rigid forms like cubes and squares. The universe is a multifaceted figure, wherein linear thought and "rational" thought are both illogical and irrational. but that's just my two pennies. From my perception your viewing in the form of a box, free and many forms and shapes to your thought, but very restricted in its depth, length, width, and so forth. But that's just my two pennies.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 17:39:46 GMT -5
Post by Del on Jan 16, 2009 17:39:46 GMT -5
With all due respect Cassiel, you're analysis and interpretation of teenage rebellion is more based on Westernized thought than anything and you're missing the other half. The human developmental spectrum extends beyond the westernized scientific analysis and view. Perhaps if teenagers were given a broader view of how they can develop themselves instead of being told the status quo is what they need to achieve, then things would be a little different. That's where their neurotic behavior stems from.What you speak of, is the typical neurotic way of life 99% of westerners experience. And THAT is where your lop-sided half pint view comes into play. Westernized psychology? Its from the world association of psychology. Unless you are not human, your brain goes through this, as well as the biological imbalances. Neurological psychology is not exclusive to the west, nor is it based upon the west, it is world wide, because the human body and brain is universal, not region exclusive. The world association of psychology? There are collection of schools of psychologies, if that is what u r referring to. Your 'world association of psychology' has little to no mention of consciousness studies...Transpersonal Psychology and schools of psychology associated with it. There is a transpersonal developmental spectrum that has been left out of your 'world association psychology. Neurological Psychology is a worldwide psychology that studies the brain, yes, and especially behavior, but has a more western view IF there is no connection between spiritual well being and mental, physical, and emotional well being. The psychology of human health encompasses a very large developmental spectrum; what's region exclusive is the way people in the field of psychology assume the human developmental spectrum to be. It's quite large and in fact all schools of psychology do have great input to the human development, but there is still more and it has yet to be brought to light/ It's interesting to see that you speak of things spiritual in nature, yet have a structured mindset on how the developmental process works. Unless you are aware of the transpersonal growth evident in development, this world association of psychology doesn't seem to be all inclusive of human development. Rebellious tendencies happen because of being confronted with a 'shadow' of what is being presented. Religion is a perfect example. A lot of people seem to denounce their religious tradition because of how it is present to them, because the very essence of it isn't there in its presentation. Consciously a teen will rebel against their home religion if it doesn't allow them to express themselves in the way they feel connected to themselves. Subconsciously it's the spirit's way of saying 'this isn't right, look elsewhere'. But without proper guidance, this is how the teen interprets that inner impulse.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 17:45:28 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Jan 16, 2009 17:45:28 GMT -5
Westernized psychology? Its from the world association of psychology. Unless you are not human, your brain goes through this, as well as the biological imbalances. Neurological psychology is not exclusive to the west, nor is it based upon the west, it is world wide, because the human body and brain is universal, not region exclusive. The world association of psychology? There are collection of schools of psychologies, if that is what u r referring to. Your 'world association of psychology' has little to no mention of consciousness studies...Transpersonal Psychology and schools of psychology associated with it. There is a transpersonal developmental spectrum that has been left out of your 'world association psychology. Neurological Psychology is a worldwide psychology that studies the brain, yes, and especially behavior, but has a more western view IF there is no connection between spiritual well being and mental, physical, and emotional well being. The psychology of human health which encompasses a very large developmental spectrum; what's region exclusive is the way people in the field of psychology assume the human developmental spectrum to be. It's interesting to see that you speak of things spiritual in nature, yet have a structured mindset on how the developmental process works. Unless you are aware of the transpersonal growth evident in development, this world association of psychology doesn't seem to be all inclusive of human development. Meta psychology isn't an acknowledged field or nor accredited study of psychology, when playing baseball if you want to stay in the game you some times need to play by the leagues set rules. So for now until, spirituality and physiological fields are mixed and made into one, its not going to fly except in the minds of individuals. Alright, so lets see, we have the APA, the APAP, APESP, which are some of the biggest branches which make of the union of world psychology. And often more so then not when dealing with spirituality, physicality, sophia, god, lucifer, it is the majority that sets the normality and the rules. Does it mean its right? No, right and wrong is just a concept, a social construct , its much how the majority here view sophia as "good" and lucifer as "bad". It would be the same with how you view psychology and mentality in the world outside this forum in regards to the majority, your view would be disdained. So yes I think outside the box when it comes to psychology, but I've demonstrated the rigid structure or societies normality view and take of it. And you have shown me your normalities rigid structure and view of Lucifer and sophia, so why not show me how you think and view them outside the box.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 17:57:19 GMT -5
Post by Del on Jan 16, 2009 17:57:19 GMT -5
The world association of psychology? There are collection of schools of psychologies, if that is what u r referring to. Your 'world association of psychology' has little to no mention of consciousness studies...Transpersonal Psychology and schools of psychology associated with it. There is a transpersonal developmental spectrum that has been left out of your 'world association psychology. Neurological Psychology is a worldwide psychology that studies the brain, yes, and especially behavior, but has a more western view IF there is no connection between spiritual well being and mental, physical, and emotional well being. The psychology of human health which encompasses a very large developmental spectrum; what's region exclusive is the way people in the field of psychology assume the human developmental spectrum to be. It's interesting to see that you speak of things spiritual in nature, yet have a structured mindset on how the developmental process works. Unless you are aware of the transpersonal growth evident in development, this world association of psychology doesn't seem to be all inclusive of human development. Meta psychology isn't an acknowledged field or nor accredited study of psychology, when playing baseball if you want to stay in the game you some times need to play by the leagues set rules. So for now until, spirituality and physiological fields are mixed and made into one, its not going to fly except in the minds of individuals. Alright, so lets see, we have the APA, the APAP, APESP, which are some of the biggest branches which make of the union of world psychology. And often more so then not when dealing with spirituality, physicality, Sophia, god, Lucifer, it is the majority that sets the normality and the rules. Does it mean its right? No, right and wrong is just a concept, a social construct , its much how the majority here view Sophia as "good" and Lucifer as "bad". It would be the same with how you view psychology and mentality in the world outside this forum in regards to the majority, your view would be disdained. So yes I think outside the box when it comes to psychology, but I've demonstrated the rigid structure or societies normality view and take of it. And you have shown me your normalities rigid structure and view of Lucifer and Sophia, so why not show me how you think and view them outside the box. And it's a shame that this is generally the case. The Association for Transpersonal Psychology is a growing association that answers a lot questions in the field of human development. Even the many schools of psychology can't come to a common ground within their developmental theories, yet when the Transpersonal steps in, because it cannot be SCIENTIFICALLY verified, it becomes a joke and isn't taken seriously. Because of the need for science to prove everything, really gives a handicap to the scientific way of thinking. That's a huge box. I don't know Lucifer, so I have not commented on his existence. I just know of my experiences of Sophia, and I haven't commented on that in this forum either. I've just commented on the behavior aspect that has been mentioned. My experiences with Sophia have been of thus: always look to the source for truth...and I am very curious by nature, but cautious at that same time. I see the world view of psychology as the entire spectrum of human development as it is now. It could expand and grow some centuries down the line. I believe both eastern and western views compliment each other, which is where my belief of their coming together makes the whole spectrum. I do not hold one higher over the other, it's just that they should both be considered. and yes, you have clearly demonstrated 'the rigid structure or societies normality view and take of it'.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 20:58:05 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Jan 16, 2009 20:58:05 GMT -5
The difference is in their purpose and what they are meant to do. Much like a company, you do not give a starting employee the powers of a manager, in this instance, the Aeon's would probably start off as a type of board, going down through the various positions, each with their own responsibility and vested power to go about doing it.
And yes. All of his creations are a part of him - since he is everywhere, a part of us and us a part of him, but we don't call our thumb our hand, or our fingernails our eyes.
Was speaking of the being Lucifer, and the being known as Satan being one and the same, not Lucifer being synonymous with the term Satan itself.
I had no mother, I was shaped into being by God. Naturally there are elements of light but there is also darkness, and "chaotic energies" in my "make up", not made out of these things but somethings mixed because they were supposed to be and such. Granted this is gross over simplification, but its the idea.
But there was no mother hehe, i was simply brought into being, fully formed. at first like the others i was simply consciousness and there really wasn't much of a, where i was type deal... like aeons, we have no real form, being everywhere and nowhere at once.
Eh. my existence predates creation. So no, that statement is invalid.
I do not deny the hatred. But I make it a point not to let it cloud my judgment, nor do i allow it to overwhelm my being in so far as to get lost in it. I know well that Lucifer has a part to play, and he plays it well, Unfortunately.
Lucifer believed that he was higher than God, yes, and that there was no one greater.
As a manipulator, and as a provoker of man, an instigator and corruptor, it is easy to see how he could influence Hitler on the path that he took.
Just as easy, it is easy to see the type of corruption that took place to cause the Witch Hunt. Don't make any mistake about it, Lucifer holds no allegiance to anyone.
The witch hunts? The inquisition? What did that breed? greed? provided an outlet for farmers to point their fingers at others who had larger land plots, etc.
It encouraged ignorance, which is a very dangerous thing. Those who professed to know a little about anything...herbal remedies and whatnot were looked on with suspicion, even killed.
It is not enough to destroy his enemy. understand that with a hatred as deep as his, it is never enough to simply kill. Make them kill themselves. have them destroy everything they *think* they believe in and have them acknowledge themselves for what they truly are: Animals in clothes.
and as an added bonus, they just so happen to be the newborn of the great celestial family (they get all of the attention and Lucifer, like a scorned sibling gets to lash out).
Again. another simplification of another act in the great play.
My reasons for hating him are my own really and vary, but this is one reason.
jaded towards Lucifer? of course. My opinions of him are based on what he's done and what he does.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 21:13:08 GMT -5
Post by KG on Jan 16, 2009 21:13:08 GMT -5
What box? The box is a dot to me, and that is on a good day. LOL
Hi Cassiel,
Apparently we hurt your feelings because we are reluctant to acknowledge Lucifer as the best thing since sliced bread. We did not mean to step on any toes. If you are a Luciferian or Lucifer's girlfriend or something, we are obliged to be polite about that, at least to a point. None of us here are fervant Lucifer fans however, and some of us do hold "never ending grudges." We also hold never ending affections, so we know how that is too.
WE are sorry, but since we didn't know you had a relationship to Lucifer, we felt free to express our opinion. I still wonder what he is to you that you felt you needed to insult my mother when I didn't agree with you about how wonderous he is.
We did not realize you would be so offended. Obviously we are not having an intelectual conversation about Lucifer's powers or lack of them, but rather not only do I have a vested interest in Sophia which I am quite open about but you apparently have a large emotional and perhaps spiritual investment in Lucifer. You did not disclose this, so how were we to know. You infered that you were accustomed to debating and discussing him. You asked what we thought and we have told you. Do you wish for us to pretend to agree with you?
AS for Psychology I can assure you that Del's credentials are accepted here, and in many places. Del is our resident Psychologist. She is about to complete her masters degree in interpersonal psychology. She has a bachelors from a very reputable college in Florida. She is not some idiot parroting something she didn't understand after skimming a psychology website... looking to support a theory she got after skimming and not understanding a section of Gnostic Scripture. It isn't just the source of information, it is the ability to comprehend it that counts and you didn't comprehend either source. Unfortunately since your reading of the material was hasty, and biased, your psychology reference was irrelivant anyway. Calm down and read more carefully next time. Go to the original source material, and stay away from summaries.
So although you were deeply offended when I pointed out that there are plenty of other fallen, and some even more powerful and relivant to the current situation than Lucifer, it bugs you that Xav, indicates Lucifer as being the one and only Satan the Adversary. Which is it in your opinion? Is Lucifer the only fallen? The most powerful being ever to fall? Or one of many?
When you have known Xav as long as I have, you will know better. This is the most insane and unpreceptive thing ever said on this site. Xav is the most humble, affectionate guy you could imagine. He is a natural born peace maker and a dear sweet young man. He has good reason to despise Lucifer, and that dislike goes deep I admit, but it does not seep over into his feelings for other people.
As for his POV of Lucifer, objectivity is not a luxury a soldier can afford. During the cold war the US and the Soviet union, turned many third world countries into battle fields. That too was in the name of balance, and maybe there was no "right side". In truth we had no real quarrel with the Viet Cong, but that doesn't mean a drafted soldier didn't have to fight them. Not to do so was to come home in a body bag. War is war,and it doesn't tend to make you like the other side. Honestly one cannot afford to like the other side.
You know you remind me of a Rob Zombie T-Shirt I once read. It said "Say you Love Satan." I read it over and over, trying to place a comma somewhere to keep it from being a paradox. What did it mean? I could not comprehend it. It made no sense. I just have trouble placing Love and Satan in the same sentence, but apparently you probably could.
Xav,
LOL even if there was no darkness or shadow to start with, believe me one does grow a dark side. I was supposed to be all sweetness and Light. Mercy incarnate, but look at me now. LOL The worst part is that it has only been 2000 years. How bitter will I be after I am your age?
Maybe they mixed a little darkness in to start with to keep other darkness from growing too much. But there was no mother hehe, i was simply brought into being, fully formed. at first like the others i was simply consciousness and there really wasn't much of a, where i was type deal... like aeons, we have no real form, being everywhere and nowhere at once.
As for the Mother thing, I figured as much. I think that is why so many younger angels are fond of female aeons, and Madonnas. I notice that even the fallens and renegades will sometimes re-inlist with us. I think a lot of them are always looking for a maternal figure. I notice that Sophia often preens the wings of her angels, adjusts their robes, etc. It is an obviously motherly gesture, and they all seem to really like that.
Why would an entity think that? The Gnostic Gospels tend to be full of names, as opposed to the Bible which is rather sparce on them. The Jewish Kabalists name many entities as well. Overall though the use of the Sanskrit language in the Gnostic Gospels gives a different flavor to those names. In addition the names vary at least in the translations, and it makes it very hard to follow at times. It is especially hard to piece together who is who between the two sets of scripture, traditional and Gnostic. Of course the earthly people have the same names, but the various spiritual entities... well those loose something in the translation apparently. It is possible you know Demurge by another name.
I do know that the Bible says that Lucifer had one third of the angels with him when he fell. I also know that other angels have fallen since then. I believe that the one I call Demurge is an aeon though. I know that in Battle Demurge fights the Sophians, while his angels battle with ours... half heartedly the last time, but they still engaged angel against angel, and Demurge against us. I figure that is because he is an aeon. He fights mostly with psi attacks. He throws invisable energy directly at our minds/heads, If you look at it really closely though you can see little waves like heat waves coming off a hot parking lot. He also shoots fire. He can also use a sword, and he is pretty good with one, but in our battles he doesn't use the sword till near the end when we draw closer.
He claims to have the ability to fall angels. He refers to what he does as causing them to fall, and they are completely convinced when they leave his company that they are. He really doesn't seem to have that many working for him any more. I do not know how many he had to start with except that it seems a lot of the ones I encounter did work for him in the past. I guess it is possible that he could have been just a high ranking officer of the angels, and not an aeon.
From what I have heard. He imprisons and tortures his angels before he falls them. He is very strict, and punishes them for things Sophia would laugh about. Things like unauthorized contact with humans, especially women are not tolerated.
Overall what they describe, is very much like the midevil tortures of the Inquisitions, and crusades. This connection was established though even before they told me these things, because when we faced him in battle I recognized him. He is the same soul as a certain inquisitor, and he was present at the crusifixtion I saw that, intuitively when I first saw him. He's been a pharasee, several inquisitors and a pope. He possessed Hitler as a sort of secondary personality. You can feel his energy as an influence on a lot of people, for that matter, but he doesn't fully possess them.
I['ve never seen that energy on the rogues or bar flies one would expect Lucifer to possess. He isn't present in mass murderers.. or at least not un authorized mass murderers. He seems to only plague mostly religious people, but occasionally politicians and the influential wealthy as well.
Hitler was possessed during part of that time. From what I remember of his energy, more than one entity was present. I know the energy of one of them well though. I have known him in many many lifetimes, both as a possessing entity, and an influence over all the people. Of course Hitler may have had a lot of influences and different things going on. Maybe he was affected by more than one entity. From what I read he had sudden personality shifts, and could be a very nice guy one minute, and suddenly almost like someone pushed a button he was spouting retoric as if he were making a speach before an audience... even if only one person was present. He was being controled by something to be sure, and maybe more than one thing.
Ummm the one I call demurge that I used to refer to as a religious spirit before I saw how big he is... well he pits one group against another all the time. He masterminded the crusades, pretending alegence to both Christian and Muslim alike. He then took that well trained Christian fighting force and unleashed part of it on a peaceful little religious cult in the Pyrene mountains of Southern France. Thus wiping out the Cathars, which were just about all of the remaining Gnostics. While Demurge has no real favorites, he does have those he hates more than others. He cut a bloody trail through history, and if you want to track it, you just look for the following rather obscure behaviors. Look for... persecution of women. Bizzare ritual killing of cats, especially hangings. The bizzare tortures, even sexual abuse, and mutilation of criminals, and political and religious desentors was always a part of this entity's work. Extreme policing of individual citizens, and forbiding certain behaviors, and instilling guilt for things that are basically normal, or even necessary. Child molestation and child murder sometimes, and especially, er... making people, especially his priests become eunics. He si phobic and resentful of sex, which fits with the story of the demurge being genderless. I always figured Lucifer would like sex, but I don't know. I guess my reasoning for that is silly. It seems like people tend to think of sex as evil, and Lucifer is supposed to be evil. IDK... I guess that is kind of silly.
You are exactly right on all of the above. In some cases a woman being able to read, or just being outspoken and articulate was enough reason to burn her. Having a document with writing on it, was also cause for suspicion, no matter what it said.
I have seen a lot of this in my incarnations as well. One thing I competely hate is propaganda, speach. Hitler was a master, and so was the Catholic church, back in the dark ages... Propaganda and ignorance go hand in hand. Do not let them know anything, other than what you want them to hear. Then whip them into a frenzy by making them feel loyal to their group at the expence of another. Stir them up, make them afraid of some common enemy, either real or imagined, and never let them see those people as human beings. Witches, heritics, infidels and such are much easier to kill than real people. Today he spurs hatred against the "Mexican" imigrants with great fervor, and you wonder what all that is, till you start looking at their most cherished items and icons. You see images of the Madonna, known as the Virgin of Guadaloupe on their car stickers, and their t-shirts, and in revered places in their homes, and you know. The people are Mexico esteme the Madonna, and thus you have the two sides of the same Catholic coin who have always been at odds. The one i refer to as Demurge wants to persecute these kind gentle people because they display the image of the Madonna, a representation of the divine feminine.
Hmmm yes, that sounds like the story I have always heard about Lucifer. With the hatred of mankind because we somehow upstaged him.
Well if I know how you feel on that one. This one entity had persecuted us, and killed my friends, and especially Gary more times than I can count. There were a couple of times that really angered me to a soul deep level.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 22:03:51 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Jan 16, 2009 22:03:51 GMT -5
What you consider creation is your perception of it, what others before you perceive creation as is there perception of it. Just as you witnessed the creation of the angels and archangels themselves when forged and awakened. So too others witnessed your creation in like manner as you and all the host of your same likeness were forged and awakened, to those that were before you they perceived the host that you were brought forth with as part of creation.
It is subjective to the view point of the one, and or ones viewing and perceiving it.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 22:18:09 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Jan 16, 2009 22:18:09 GMT -5
Valid point. Following that train of thought - according to my perspective, before myself and the others born around that moment as well, there was God. Creation as I see it, is everything else that followed after the time gap after my birth. The myriad universes and realities therein.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 22:22:35 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Jan 16, 2009 22:22:35 GMT -5
Oh my kg, I apologize if my words seemed riled, I like you was under the impression that you were having an emotional reaction to the questions and statements I posed about sophia. I apologize for I was unaware that you took sophia as being real literary, and not in a symbolic sense. From thus forth I will put effort into walking carefuly around you and the subject of sophia, for now I know you view this allegory as truly your mother. Valid point. Following that train of thought - according to my perspective, before myself and the others born around that moment as well, there was God. Creation as I see it, is everything else that followed after the time gap after my birth. The myriad universes and realities therein. If you were created in the void, along with the rest of your host, which from your view point predated existence itself, which from your position would be so. However if your place of creation, the void as you call, the room outside existence so to put it simply, was itself a creation and you were its inhabitants, then those outside of that would view you as the creation, and reality that followed afterward which you witnessed as the consequent flame. Yes only you and god were present, however outside of your cradle of birth, were many others witnessing. god is not limited by reality, time, space, or thought to put it simply, he was indeed there with you upon your birth, but that is not only where he was.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 22:47:39 GMT -5
Post by Del on Jan 16, 2009 22:47:39 GMT -5
What box? The box is a dot to me, and that is on a good day. LOL Hi Cassiel, Apparently we hurt your feelings because we are reluctant to acknowledge Lucifer as the best thing since sliced bread. We did not mean to step on any toes. If you are a Luciferian or Lucifer's girlfriend or something, we are obliged to be polite about that, at least to a point. None of us here are fervant Lucifer fans however, and some of us do hold "never ending grudges." We also hold never ending affections, so we know how that is too. WE are sorry, but since we didn't know you had a relationship to Lucifer, we felt free to express our opinion. I still wonder what he is to you that you felt you needed to insult my mother when I didn't agree with you about how wonderous he is. We did not realize you would be so offended. Obviously we are not having an intelectual conversation about Lucifer's powers or lack of them, but rather not only do I have a vested interest in Sophia which I am quite open about but you apparently have a large emotional and perhaps spiritual investment in Lucifer. You did not disclose this, so how were we to know. You infered that you were accustomed to debating and discussing him. You asked what we thought and we have told you. Do you wish for us to pretend to agree with you? AS for Psychology I can assure you that Del's credentials are accepted here, and in many places. Del is our resident Psychologist. She is about to complete her masters degree in interpersonal psychology. She has a bachelors from a very reputable college in Florida. She is not some idiot parroting something she didn't understand after skimming a psychology website... looking to support a theory she got after skimming and not understanding a section of Gnostic Scripture. It isn't just the source of information, it is the ability to comprehend it that counts and you didn't comprehend either source. Unfortunately since your reading of the material was hasty, and biased, your psychology reference was irrelivant anyway. Calm down and read more carefully next time. Go to the original source material, and stay away from summaries. Cassiel, This is what Transpersonal Psychology is: Transpersonal Psychology is the extension of psychological studies into consciousness studies, spiritual inquiry, body-mind relationships and transformation. Carl Jung first coined the term transpersonal (uberpersonlich) when he used the phrase "transpersonal unconscious" as a synonym for "collective unconscious."
Generally, the field can be said to encompass three major areas: Beyond-Ego Psychology, Integrative/Holistic Psychology, and Transformative Psychology.
Transpersonal psychology is depth psychology. It is part of the therapeutic stream started by Freud and his successors, Jung, Rank, and Reich. Roberto Assagioli, who posited a superconscious, as well as a subconscious, integrated transpersonal and depth psychology, as did Carl Jung.
Transpersonal psychology recognizes and studies the different states and stations of consciousness; Transpersonal psychology is a psychology that goes through the personal to the transpersonal; Transpersonal psychology is an approach to the whole person. It seeks a balanced development of the intellectual, emotional, spiritual, physical, social, and creative expression aspects of a person's life. Thus, all six areas are addressed scholastically and therapeutically, and integration or balance is sought; Transpersonal psychology is a psychology of human development; Transpersonal psychology and transpersonal psychotherapy, in particular, does not see the human personality as an end in itself; Transpersonal Psychology is a psychology of health and human potential. While recognizing and addressing human psychopathology, transpersonal psychology does not derive its model of the human psyche from the ill or diseased. Transpersonal psychology looks to saints, prophets, great artists, heroes, and heroines for models of full human development and of the growth-oriented nature of the normal human psyche. Instead of defining ourselves as all essentially neurotic (if not worse), transpersonal psychology makes it possible to perceive the individual as one engaged in the process of development toward full humanity, as exemplified by the words and deeds of great men and women.I currently attend The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology located in California. This Institute is accredited by the WASC - Western Association of Schools and Colleges. To become a licensed psychologist, a Clinical integration into the course is required. There are licensed Transpersonal Psychologist and Psychotherapists, Humanistic-Existential Psychotherapists with a strong background in Transpersonal Psychology. Do you even understand what transpersonal is? How about Transpersonal Psychology? The definition is above. Meta Psychology is more along the lines of the paranormal based solely on personal experiences, and no, Meta psychology is not recognized or accredited. Oh and yes, we have a presence within APA: ITP had a strong presence at this year's APA Convention, held in Boston, Massachusetts this year (with perfect weather, in one person's opinion). In addition to all the presentations and poster sessions listed below, the hospitality suite for the Humanistic Division 32 (our current home) was abuzz on Friday night, with interesting conversation, a great view, and many luminaries in attendance. Kathleen Wall also chaired presentation of awards for the Humanistic Division, and Jan Fisher and Rosemarie Anderson hosted a talk on Intuitive Inquiry.
As Director of Clinical Training, Jan Fisher represented the school at the annual meeting of the National Council for Schools of Professional Psychology, staying abreast of best practices in clinical training. We practically monopolized the poster session, "Humanizing an Inhumane World," with several recent graduates and faculty featured: www.itp.edu/currents/editorials/apa-conference.php Division 32 - Society for Humanistic Psychology Click here to go directly to the website of Division 32 - Society for Humanistic Psychology.
Division 32 - Society for Humanistic Psychology recognizes the full richness of the human experience. Its foundations include philosophical humanism, existentialism, and phenomenology. The Society seeks to contribute to psychotherapy, education, theory/philosophy, research, organization, management, social responsibility, and change. The Humanistic Psychologist is the Society journal, published three times per year. www.apa.org/about/division/div32.html The Directory of Graduate Schools in Transpersonal and Humanistic Psychology is now online at: www.westga.edu/~psydept/humanisticdirectory www.apa.org/divisions/div32/ www.westga.edu/~psydept/humanisticdirectorywww.westga.edu/~psydept/directory-itp.htmlI don't know Lucifer, as I have stated before. Therefore I have no right to bash him or speak ill of him. Transpersonal Psychology...is hardly metapsychology. I hope I have provided you with enough information about what Transpersonal Psychology is and isn't, the accreditation since you did mention the going over of credentials, and of course our presence within the APA.
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Angels
Jan 16, 2009 22:59:15 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Jan 16, 2009 22:59:15 GMT -5
Valid point. IF the void was a creation (to house our birth), and IF there were others outside of the void, then this would hold true.
But in this instance, the void was not a construct. it simply was what it was because there was nothing else. Yes, God is everywhere and thus was present at the time of my birth, as well as here now at the same time. However at the time (or now for that matter) I was not omniescent. I do not have the luxury of being in the now, as well as the Then and will be.
The void was not all darkness it was simply an emptiness of creation, a lot like walking into an open field without anything else in sight, but without the field to stand on. From where we stood we saw the other realities and creations intertwined. As you said, we were outside of creation, thus, it is not a pocket dimension but more of a background for the universes as the inhabitants know it.
Example? Space as the void, with each planet, and astronomical body as its own universe.
It was not a finite space, it simple was. There were no other observers other than God, and whomever he chose from later times to show the time before the dawn of creation to.
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