Post by KG on Jan 31, 2011 14:23:35 GMT -5
Wow!
Hi Xav, Hi Cassiel!
You guys have really been debating this, but finally... wow Cassiel I actually agree with like at least 95percent of this. I have enjoyed reading all the debate, but have kept silent because all I ever do is just interject extraneous material about demiurge, and then agree with Xav... and I do Xav, but this time, I think Cassiel is on to something.
Yes... God divided against himself obviously means different persona's within one being, and one of the definitions of God is the entire universe. On every level in the universe is division. Man divided against man, mother divided from father, angel against angel, and so forth all the way to the top. Further man is divided against himself, fighting his worse nature with his better nature. It should not be so, but when we stop looking at God as a single individual with perfect will, and start seeing god as a multifaceted being who is essentially everything in his creation combined... well that is an apt picture.
However many here, including myself see God also as just that, a sentient single being, who is highest on the chain but obviously not the whole thing. Does he have inner conflict? Is he undecided, or does he waver? Probably not... but yes the overall whole is divided and I think we all have to agree with that. I still believe in Demiurge as well, and he's obviously made up his mind as well. He isn't conflicted either. He is very singular in his ignorant fear inducing approach to control. Nor is Sophia conflicted because eventually you do have to decide what you want and go for it. She has, and likewise probably most of the older entities are fairly decided. Is Lucifer conflicted? You'd know better than I. I really don't keep up with him, but I do sense that he's sort of ceded his influence. Or at least I haven't noticed him lately.
I also agree that all outcomes are up for grabs, but as for ends... well I don't see ends just changes. WE are all immortal beings and the worlds are without end, and heaven and the entire spiritual realm, will never cease. There are no true ends to the possibilities of the worlds.
I do believe, or at least hope that the cruel physicality of this world will end, and lead to a more flexible environment... fall of the veil or whatever, but that's just a hope that things will become easier... I have seen fluctuations in the veil, but I have no guarantee that it will ever fall entirely. Overall that's up for grabs too.
As for the return of Christ, in my mind I know that is predicted, but how can someone who is already here, return? Jesus is closer to me than the air I breathe, he's always been active here on earth, so how can he return? Maybe people will just finally see him. At any rate most of Revelation has been happening for the last 2000 years or more so how can that start? How can it end, considering it hasn't yet? It's been nothing but the four horsemen and the vials of plagues for the last 2000 years... at least in some parts of the world since the beginning. Now the USA is having a significantly harder time, but the american people don't really know what a hard time is, compared to people in Africa, or Mexico or so many other parts of the world. Things are overall, very little worse than they always have been, but they sure are different. Things change, they don't end... at least that's my POV, and that's what I see in Revelations, change, not an end. Other than that one point of change or end though. I pretty much agree...
Division exists in the universe, and entity is divided against entity. It is simply a matter of vocabulary as to whether God means the leader of the benevolent forces or if God means the whole of the universe. Overall the 1/3rd 2/3rds split we see in the angels is fairly accurate to how the division goes in humans, angels, dieties, and even within each person. I'd say that one third is misguided, or negative, or following the negative side of "the plan" IDK but it's interesting that I actually get this post pretty well.
One thing I do believe is that "All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purpose." That does not mean that we all have it made though. Sometimes bad things do happen but they always turn out for the best. It's the same as now with the sufferings to bring about a better future. It's very hard right now for many good people, but eventually it will work out for the best. I'm not gloom and doom about the future, but the present is kicking my butt. LOL Gotta go before I fall behind on my work. Good post though. I feel like framing it. Great job!!
Hi Xav, Hi Cassiel!
You guys have really been debating this, but finally... wow Cassiel I actually agree with like at least 95percent of this. I have enjoyed reading all the debate, but have kept silent because all I ever do is just interject extraneous material about demiurge, and then agree with Xav... and I do Xav, but this time, I think Cassiel is on to something.
Yes... God divided against himself obviously means different persona's within one being, and one of the definitions of God is the entire universe. On every level in the universe is division. Man divided against man, mother divided from father, angel against angel, and so forth all the way to the top. Further man is divided against himself, fighting his worse nature with his better nature. It should not be so, but when we stop looking at God as a single individual with perfect will, and start seeing god as a multifaceted being who is essentially everything in his creation combined... well that is an apt picture.
However many here, including myself see God also as just that, a sentient single being, who is highest on the chain but obviously not the whole thing. Does he have inner conflict? Is he undecided, or does he waver? Probably not... but yes the overall whole is divided and I think we all have to agree with that. I still believe in Demiurge as well, and he's obviously made up his mind as well. He isn't conflicted either. He is very singular in his ignorant fear inducing approach to control. Nor is Sophia conflicted because eventually you do have to decide what you want and go for it. She has, and likewise probably most of the older entities are fairly decided. Is Lucifer conflicted? You'd know better than I. I really don't keep up with him, but I do sense that he's sort of ceded his influence. Or at least I haven't noticed him lately.
I also agree that all outcomes are up for grabs, but as for ends... well I don't see ends just changes. WE are all immortal beings and the worlds are without end, and heaven and the entire spiritual realm, will never cease. There are no true ends to the possibilities of the worlds.
I do believe, or at least hope that the cruel physicality of this world will end, and lead to a more flexible environment... fall of the veil or whatever, but that's just a hope that things will become easier... I have seen fluctuations in the veil, but I have no guarantee that it will ever fall entirely. Overall that's up for grabs too.
As for the return of Christ, in my mind I know that is predicted, but how can someone who is already here, return? Jesus is closer to me than the air I breathe, he's always been active here on earth, so how can he return? Maybe people will just finally see him. At any rate most of Revelation has been happening for the last 2000 years or more so how can that start? How can it end, considering it hasn't yet? It's been nothing but the four horsemen and the vials of plagues for the last 2000 years... at least in some parts of the world since the beginning. Now the USA is having a significantly harder time, but the american people don't really know what a hard time is, compared to people in Africa, or Mexico or so many other parts of the world. Things are overall, very little worse than they always have been, but they sure are different. Things change, they don't end... at least that's my POV, and that's what I see in Revelations, change, not an end. Other than that one point of change or end though. I pretty much agree...
Division exists in the universe, and entity is divided against entity. It is simply a matter of vocabulary as to whether God means the leader of the benevolent forces or if God means the whole of the universe. Overall the 1/3rd 2/3rds split we see in the angels is fairly accurate to how the division goes in humans, angels, dieties, and even within each person. I'd say that one third is misguided, or negative, or following the negative side of "the plan" IDK but it's interesting that I actually get this post pretty well.
One thing I do believe is that "All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purpose." That does not mean that we all have it made though. Sometimes bad things do happen but they always turn out for the best. It's the same as now with the sufferings to bring about a better future. It's very hard right now for many good people, but eventually it will work out for the best. I'm not gloom and doom about the future, but the present is kicking my butt. LOL Gotta go before I fall behind on my work. Good post though. I feel like framing it. Great job!!