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Angels
Mar 30, 2009 3:05:30 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Mar 30, 2009 3:05:30 GMT -5
When I said Created things, I was talking about Lucifer, Angels, humans, etc. Not God.
I'm not saying that there is only, "One true God". I'm simply saying that there is God.
A lot of people claim to speak to God. Very few of them actually do. And more often than not, the messages they bring ring true, even if it angers. Your's and the other who continuously changes their name (probably stoner), do not.
There is no deeper understanding to be hand. There is no mystery behind the truths you profess. It's the same song, over and over again, sung by one who sings to amuse themselves at the folly of mankind.
BUT.
It has served one purpose - it's rekindled a passion to learn and understand, to seek out and come to grips with what is known, and understand what is felt and what those feelings mean. Things that I had left behind for some time.
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Angels
Mar 30, 2009 3:08:52 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Mar 30, 2009 3:08:52 GMT -5
You nor the others of your class are not, were not, all knowing, all seeing. You stating you came before Lucifer, It is akin to you telling me that the hands I see before me are not real. Contrastingly to the analogy you stated, my confidence, my existence stems from all individuals, societies, realities, and existences, which is why I will not cease in what I see just as you will not with what you perceive.
You state you know it as fact, yet you do not know it is fact. Do you know every facet and particle of God, every iota of his plan? Then how can you state what is fact and not fact concerning Lucifer and the order of creation? Because you have memories of being before him? Is your entire point hinged upon your memories and feelings? If so what makes your memories, feelings greater then any others?
Judgment is a mailable thing, it changes shape and form to the individual holding it within their hands to best suit their situation. So you state as fact that you came before Lucifer in order of creation, you have stated as fact that Lucifer is not seeking that relationship, what is judgment to you if not that? You have judged between ideas, perceptions, opinions and stated as fact which is truth, fact, and which is not.
You have judged.
Again you judge stating who's words ring true with godliness and whose do not. It is your opinion, not fact, only your opinion nothing more.
So tell me, where does your information come from?
Mystery is perceived by those who can see beyond the veil in front of them. Just because you do not see and perceive, does not mean their is no truth, mystery to the words of others.
The same tune you hear over and over is your own voice echoing your self proclaimed judgments of what is truth and what is not truth.
You may want to prepare for the day the scales from your eyes, the light may burn your pupils.
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Angels
Mar 30, 2009 3:32:10 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Mar 30, 2009 3:32:10 GMT -5
You see what you're supposed to see. Nothing more. Even if that were the case, i'm a pretty humble individual. I've never seen myself as anything other than what I am. Me. *shrug*
All knowing? No. All seeing on the other hand, at that time as there was very little to be seen anyway, but as they did come into existence, we were given the privilege of seeing all things as they evolved and grew.
Is that still the case? Maybe, maybe not. That is one of the things I do not remember clearly at all. Hypothetically, We probably still do, as i've stated before, what we were born to do, generally requires it.
(going by sentence) I can only wish I knew his entire plan. I know only what he allows me to learn from him and what I experience myself.
I state my opinion of Lucifer as a fact, my own, as I know it.
Yes, because i have memories of coming into existence before him, and feelings of that simply being correct, not because I want it to be, but simply because it feels that way.
What makes my memories and such greater than the memories of others?
They're not. It's a matter of trusting the words of one who was actually there, over the words of someone who was not.
For example.
The power goes out in your house and you realize that you need to fix some of the wiring... Who would you get to fix it? Your Neighbor, or an Electrician?
Come now, how can my pupils burn If i'm standing to the side of the one giving out that light?
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Angels
Mar 30, 2009 3:42:22 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Mar 30, 2009 3:42:22 GMT -5
Within. I pray, I commune with God, and I trust in his helping me discern what is true, and what is not. Knowledge will come when it is supposed to according to his will.
I've already mentioned that I make it my business not to judge. It's not my place to judge. It's simply what has been observed.
Nor does it mean that there is either.
If that is what you really think, then you've missed a few point's back.
I don't care about who is right or wrong. More often than not, it's a case of what is, and what isn't as trying to debate who is right and who is wrong is far messier.
I try very hard not to make any judgments. More often than not, I go off of what i've seen. If a man lies, then obviously that man is a liar. Does it mean he *always* lies? No.
I'm every bit a seeker as anyone else is here. Nothing I say do i say to convince, 99% of the time, i'm simply clarifying what I believe.
What I know and feel comes from years of curiosity melded in with an interesting dance of nightmares, reading from here and there, instinct and trust in God, that I will know what I need to know, when I need to know it. Or before hand, if he so chooses to. *shrug*
------------------
ultimately, I can stand to delve further into the mysteries, something I haven't done in a long time, but your constant input as piqued my curiosity further.
My opinions have already been said. So there's no real point in me continuing further unless something new is brought up or something is asked of me directly.
If i'm right, then i'm right. That's all there is to it really, nothing will have changed from my perspective.
If i'm wrong, then i'm wrong. *shrug*
or maybe I simply haven't remembered ever single detail, who knows? I go with what I have.
Interesting little talk.
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Angels
Mar 30, 2009 4:49:21 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Mar 30, 2009 4:49:21 GMT -5
Your words show nothing to me that you were there, I suppose we agree to disagree.
What I have seen Lucifer came before you and all others, so yes I take the word of some one who was actually there rather then some one who believes they were there when they may or may not have been.
From what I have seen and experienced, you have not seen all, even during the beginning of creation, as you claim there was little to observe, no you were not as far back as you believe yourself to be. The crib you were born into yes you were rather close to the beginning there, then again your pride, your factual knowledge, would never allow you to see that you were but one of many creations, concepts of one of many "cribs".
(going by sentence) You know what you know, and all you do know is what is of your own self, so how can you know Lucifer? All you know is the limits of your own self of your own opinion and perception of Lucifer, not who truly Lucifer is, only God knows this and Lucifer.
Your opinion is opinion, it is only factual to yourself, not me or any other you have spoken it to, only those who have willingly chose to accept it as fact in their paradigm.
Yes, because Lucifer has memories of coming into existence before you, and feelings of that simply being correct, not because Lucifer wants it to be so, but simply because it feels that way.
What makes the memories of Lucifer greater then the memories of others, or yours?
They're not greater. It's a matter of trusting the words of one who was actually there, over the words of someone who was not at the place "place" they believed they were at and at the "time" they thought they were. In this case, Lucifer, rather then you.
I pray to God, and my perception is shaped by Him, I trust in Him and to show me all that He shows me, all by His Will as it flows all about me and around me in all and everything and everyone.
What I know and feel comes from years of experience with shades and lights melding and evolving as they break down to one and the same, as all chalk drawn lines fade. Walking to and fro throughout reality, trusting in God as he leads me, carries me and evolves me to what I will be by His Will. Love, friendship and perception with God, to infuse me with His Will and Spirit.
-------------------------------------------------------
If I'm accurate in what I believe I know, then the knowledge within me is accurate. Simply put, that about sums it up, not much more you can do about it. My perception is always changing, evolving, taking in every glimpse and every moment, to assimilate all.
If turns out I am been delusional, then I have been delusional, simple as that.
I know I haven't read every word in existence yet, I have much to learn, I'm still growing, so to continue to learn I will.
Delightful cup of tea we have shared, cheers.
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Angels
Mar 30, 2009 7:55:09 GMT -5
Post by seamus on Mar 30, 2009 7:55:09 GMT -5
Hi and Welcome Seamus!!! Thanks so much for your wonderful story. I love your naritive and was on the edge of my seat for the whole thing. Wonderful!!! What an experience, and I can relate to so much of it. WE are a family and are in the midst of a family discussion, argument or whatever, but the thing is we are still family and love each other very much. I hope you checked out enough of our site to see that we do not really fight much. actually i kinda got sucked right in here to this thread well... I am not REALLY the incarnation of time... any more than anyone else, that is. erm... I was "fed" this useful delusion by the first of "Kenny"s type that I ever met. His name was Mike Bunch (so he said) and he claimed to be the incarnation of the cosmic force (concept?) of Death. The idea came directly from a book series by Piers Anthony, the "Incarnations of Immortality" series. Amazing reads. I have only read halfway through "Satan's" book and haven't yet picked up the book about "God". The others are Death, Fate, War, Nature, and Time. That is in great part what prompted me to take a stab at talking "Satan" out of his job, the idea that I was on equal footing with him. However, I did receive visions of how time works while on my journeys, and it boils down to this: everything has happened already, all at once. As Bill Hicks said, it's just a ride. We are going through a "tunnel of love" which is a lot like a haunted house ride. Time is constructed in tunnels of perception. it is unnecessary for whole universes to be constructed... so tunnels are made for the "experiencing" of different lives and realities. I had a vision/memory of souls going out of the One and coming back into it, like dolphins jumping out of the sea, and splashing back in. This was from the POV of being under the sea, and being able to see the arced vault of the sea above, so deep was it. So, time as western civilization teaches it, does not exist at all. If Xav is a real angel, he'll back me up on that. Not a challenge, but a prod. Once you evolve to the point where you see that there is no time, you can do that. It is not really going into the past, it is interacting with a reality tunnel to actually change the life experience of those souls traveling through it.Well, my experience was much less threatening than that. It was the pivotal moment of my life, for the good. I wish I could channel. Is there an online class or something that is worth recommending? yes that is really cool. I was able to do this with my brother when we were on LSD together. I am also able to do it with my soulmate.He wants the end of evil and suffering. The way he sees that happening is through the polarization of the human race. There will be (optimally but not realistically) only very good and very evil. The very evil destroy themselves. Thus, no evil.I don't see Kenny as a problem-causer at all. I see him as a catalyst for growth, and a necessary part of the process of evolution (I don't mean Darwinist evolution here).I agree, and unfortunately I see a whole ethnic group almost completely consumed that way.I don't think he's a demon either. I think he is someone doing what he thinks is best, while maintaining the sanctity of free will.Fear, not hate, is the opposite of love. He was teaching me the most important lesson i ever got. He taught me the limit of my own love, and thus I can be humble, because I don't judge others. They are just like me and I am just like the worst criminal. I am just riding the Joe Smith ride presently and he might be riding the Charles Manson ride. That doesn't make me better than him. That was the hardest pill to swallow for me, but the most freeing.sometimes? That sounds like Kenny/Mike/etc. they all had special eyes and I think they were all bisexual or gay.for which reason Christianity has found it well to call them demons. i know you don't use that word, but Christianity does. Now THAT's a story i would like to hear more of! But that's all i have for now. I mentioned that I would tell more about that "type" later. I guess now is later. I have met no less than 5 people of this race and maybe as many as 7. One I met online through a chat box on a forum and, miracle of miracles, I pegged his personality without ever hearing his voice or seeing his picture. He is a young one, though, not even sure of what he is. He just knows he is different. He was astonished as I described his physical features without the benefit of the picture, right down to the weak chin that had some years previously been surgically "corrected". He said "Yeah, i miss my weak chin. I have a regular one now." Of course i didn't guess it had been corrected, just that he had a weak chin. Then when I saw his picture, it confirmed once again my belief in this race. I intuit they were the "berdache" type of medicine man in the Native American tradition, as well as the "Two Souls" type in Hindu tradition. If you want to know what they look like, take a gander at a photo of Phil Lesh. He has everything BUT the weak chin. (but sometimes when he's playing hard he tucks his chin in and it looks just right). Tall (6'2" or more), gangly, but muscular, same alert eyes, coyote-like. In fact, Kenny was very coyote-ish. I may know a couple of females of this type as well... they are both what i call "genetic witches" (don't know what else to call them); those who commune with nature because it is in their nature. With or without training, they are adept at it. I think that about covers it for the basic facts. I'll only add this caveat: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. I spent many years in a very unhappy state as a result of looking for "the devil". If I could trade those years for peaceful ones, though, I don't think I would.
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Angels
Mar 30, 2009 11:04:11 GMT -5
Post by 7614219157 on Mar 30, 2009 11:04:11 GMT -5
of course you cant burn your eyes on the light of truth if you do not look! not to say that you *should* if that is not what you were created to do. However, if it were not the will of your perceived idea of god to become separate from him, individuals of his will, we would never have been given free will. Lucifer, the herald of free will, even if created by the very god we exist within, is the first individual of god to be brought into god's creation(s). I do not believe that everything in god's realm of creation belongs to god or is sourced from god alone, nor do i believe in any "one true/original source" of creation/existence/reality. I believe in an infinity beyond the infinite, incalculable, immeasurable, and unfathomable even by the most powerful and infinite of gods. I believe that "the plan", if you will, is to unite all individuals, created and creator, on the same level of infinity as the gods that wield it. I believe, considering what little is known, but what is told of "Lucifer", that "he" is *our* god's first (possibly foremost) individual companion. in saying you are to humble yourself before your god is fine and if that is your path, your will, then i am not going to argue that in the least bit, because naturally, you are only meant to be who you are. But i believe quite firmly that god wants to see his creations rise up to his level using the gift of free will which he allowed us. i cannot believe there could be any reason otherwise to give anything within creation free reign over their will and body.
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Angels
Mar 30, 2009 13:45:25 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Mar 30, 2009 13:45:25 GMT -5
*pokes back* He's right heh.
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Angels
Mar 31, 2009 10:11:12 GMT -5
Post by KG on Mar 31, 2009 10:11:12 GMT -5
Well I hope you check out some of the other threads. There has been a lot of interesting information, in some of the threads.
What made you decide you weren't?
This is really a good thing for me. I am relieved to hear that... it means certain things I have done are probably effective. I was not sure if it was real, or just an emotional exercise.
Wow that is so cool!!! I love that.
That does sound good. My experience was just interesting. Maybe a little bit scary but not that bad.
Cool. I love having confirmation that I'm not just nuts. it is good to have at least one other person who can see what you see. It also makes you feel more confident even when they aren't there, that you aren't just halucinitory. Before my teacher I thought I was just nuts.
LOL purely evil people would likely destroy themselves, but humans are almost never purely anything. We rarely agree with ourselves, and there is always inner conflict. it makes us very unpredictable cause you never know which side of an inner argument they are likely to take.
Kenny sounds like a problem solver, and I wasn't clear on what I meant. I meant that REAL, created entities with Souls are rarely at the root of human psychological problems. Not all entities that approach us are problems, obviously... but it seems to me that most emotional problems are caused by soul-less pain bodies. Occasionally something bigger is involved though. AS a deliverance minister I mostly dealt with human created energy fields that over time solidify into humans. I have also encountered a race of entities who look like shadows with red eyes. I've seen a higher entities being a problem, but these cases usually involve practitioners, who work on a higher level than just trying to live their physical lives. Greater entities can be invoked, or even envoked and turned against other people, but that is an exceptional situation.
I totally agree, and have often said the same. Fear is the huge problem with being human. It makes people do awful things sometimes.
i didn't notice any sexuality between them at all, only a deep affection for each other, but that did seem to be regardless of gender. The one I spoke to mentioned his brother, and he was obviously feeling that family tie, like real love for the other guy. It didn't seem sexual to me, only that some humans would have to be madly in love to feel so deeply about another person.
I know where there is an entire village of them astrally. I have become aware of them, and certain of my alies now sends them astral cupcakes and cookies from the bakeries of heaven, on a regular basis. They love sweets. I visit the village at least once a month usually.
I just looked up berdache. I had never run across this before. I will definitely read it. I am not sure the condition is limited to this one race though. That is my situation, but I am not bi, or gay. Gary and I live together in the body, but it is my body. He had a body and died. We were always linked though. When he was alive I could hear his thoughts in words, and I could channel him even then. I could see through his eyes sometimes when I was a child, if I wanted to know if he was safe. We are twin souls, and are conjoined at the heart. I might benefit from reading up on this phenomonon. It sounds like my life in some ways, but definitely not in ohters.
There is also a stage in the devlopment described in Alchemy called the hermaphrodite, in which the person becomes aware of an equal and opposite individual of the opposite sex, within. The purpose is to become one. There is an inner love affair, but Gary insisted I date, get married and live a normal life. If he had lived, we'd be together as husband and wife.
I really think western culture makes things seem outward and sexual that are really internal, and spiritual. Or... whatever anything is, we tend to see it strictly as sexual. I don't think it always has to be about the physical body, and the horemones and glands thereof. Americans and europeans are such litteralists. We think everything has to manifest on this plain.
I think that is cool. I do not know any in the physical, as far as I know. I only became aware of them astrally in the last several years.
I agree. We are who we are because of experience. I was an adriniline junky in some ways, and after a sheltered childhood I sought as much excitment as I could. I dated a junkie, I went to wild parties, and was a assistant bouncer in a really rough bar for a while. I lived a very interesting life, and like you I've met a lot of unusual people along the way. I love people, and I experienced them at their worst and at their best. I never shied away from any experience. I wasn't looking for the devil, but I have found quite a few devils... not Lucifer though. I never made his aquaintence.
Most of the devils I knew came in this category... "Somebody's knocking, should I let him in? Lord it's the Devil, would you look at him. I heard about him, but I never dreamed, he'd have blue eyes and blue jeans." LOL Terri Gibbs quote. That is one kind of devil I have had to sware off of though, after I got married. Before that, I had quite an addiction. LOL
People are their own devils, and they seek out the devil in others sometimes. Any more devils are superfluous. We get into enough trouble all by ourselves.
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Angels
Apr 1, 2009 23:14:40 GMT -5
Post by seamus on Apr 1, 2009 23:14:40 GMT -5
Do you believe in your self? Do you believe in God? Regardless of how many stand resistant, in dismay, non belief, defiant, Lucifer will walk this desert to become God. You chalk him up to being just another angel, another fallen, but from my eyes he is above all angels, it is similar to an individual perceiving them self as being greater then all others when they are in deed greater then all others. Greatness comes from the potential that you have, and the Will that you invoke to bring about change. Lucifer has brought more change then any other individual by flowing with the Will of God that spirals infinitely from him. This presentation you give is compelling, Cassiel. I have had a vision recently of what would happen if one were to break through the "reality tunnel" one had chosen to exist in. Would you mind weighing in on that idea? I intuit that one would then be free of God to grow in God's light as a separate entity, beloved of God and potentially a friend of God. Doing so requires ego death on a regular basis, if not constantly. The faithful are rewarded for their courage and love.I have seen this as well, but perhaps it's only an archetypal imprint. I have to say I am amazed. I have only met one other person who believes that, and she is an amazing person with a really big heart. You wouldn't happen to be in Arizona, would you? S
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Angels
Apr 1, 2009 23:24:19 GMT -5
Post by seamus on Apr 1, 2009 23:24:19 GMT -5
I may know a couple of females of this type as well... they are both what i call "genetic witches" (don't know what else to call them); those who commune with nature because it is in their nature. With or without training, they are adept at it. I think that is cool. I do not know any in the physical, as far as I know. I only became aware of them astrally in the last several years. I forgot to mention, Bjork the Icelandic singer is one. So is my fiancee.
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Angels
Apr 2, 2009 20:48:14 GMT -5
Post by KG on Apr 2, 2009 20:48:14 GMT -5
I am very intrigued with this idea. I think many of us get a glempse beyond the "reality tunnel," but something keeps drawing us back in. To be free of it entirely is hard to imagine while incarnate. Even if you see it, we just can't abandon our reality, and the people in it. Not completely anyway.
There seem to be layers of reality really. Matter, then auras, the past, various entities in levels that overlay ours, then various plains and realms and on up to heaven, once or twice I've been to a place where there is no form, only thought, no location, and POV, just awareness, but I don't know how deep that goes, or what is on past all that. IDK that I really want to get past it all. I am not sure I am ready. I've been to higher levels only to return to my comfort zone, which is a heaven with form and structure. Not matter but form at least.
IDK I think I let my ego come back, in the interest of my health and sanity... i've actually tried to get back to the way I was. It isn't the same though. You can never go back. If this is ego death, I do not think it has been helpful to me. LOL
I was wondering about that. I have had some archetypal visions such as envisioning the garden of eden, and being in the place of Eve. I saw it as if I was her, but i was me, just not in control of what I was doing. It didn't play out like the biblical story... IDK what that meant, it was just a vision. It was very weird because the apple was a tomato. I actually tasted it... but there was no huge getting kicked out of the garden of eden scene. I did leave though, but I walked out of my own accord. IDK what it means. I know it doesn't mean I was Eve.
I think if Cassiel had picked any other name on this board, she would not have gotten a rise out of us. It just happens that Xav has an image of Lucifer already, and I have at least an intelectual awareness of his story. I have a fairly traditional understanding of it, based in what precious little is actually written about him.
Really, I haven't thought about Lucifer, maybe twenty minutes in the last twenty years. Over twenty years ago, I was in a very different place intelectually and spiritually, so it pulls on the old information. I really don't have a clue about Lucifer, other than what I learned in church.
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Angels
Apr 2, 2009 23:27:09 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Apr 2, 2009 23:27:09 GMT -5
Names don't matter too much for me...intend does though =), so regardless of what name she used, her words would have been the same *nod nod*
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Angels
Apr 3, 2009 10:54:08 GMT -5
Post by KG on Apr 3, 2009 10:54:08 GMT -5
Are you saying that it was her intention to provoke a strong debate? She wanted to do it here where our discussions do not usually have this flavor? IDK I just thought that was the way she was used to communicating on another site. Some sites do nothing but debate. We do very little debating. We do not tend to speak to each other in debate tone much. We mostly talk to each other in a more personal tone. She did sort of pick a topic we disagreed with her on. You remember Lucifer personally. Historically speaking what you remember is acurate to what is recorded about that time, and with other angels who also remember that time. In recent times, as a deliverance minister, and in my astral explorations, I never ran into him, directly. I've met many fallens, but never him. What I was taught was that we are more than conquorors, and to be fearless. I am not afraid of this entity or any other, so all this talk about Lucifer could beat us up if he wanted to... really just seems... Kind of like my dad can beat up your dad, and... er... no he can't, but I really don't think your dad would even try to beat up my dad. I think the discussion of who can beat who up is kind of childish.
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Angels
Apr 3, 2009 18:52:41 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Apr 3, 2009 18:52:41 GMT -5
hehehe =)
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