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Post by dania on Dec 21, 2006 0:10:59 GMT -5
The problem with prisons is that there are escapes...
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Post by Kata Samoes on Dec 21, 2006 16:18:07 GMT -5
There is a greater form of darkness that is needed, and it is known that He is one of the original Five Creators.
All things dark have their match in Light and in Balance. He is needed.
Outside of this disagreement, it is not impossible to banish much of this Demiurgos influence from your life. Can you set up a proper ward around yourself?
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Post by tara on Dec 21, 2006 20:54:42 GMT -5
There is a greater form of darkness that is needed, and it is known that He is one of the original Five Creators. All things dark have their match in Light and in Balance. He is needed. Outside of this disagreement, it is not impossible to banish much of this Demiurgos influence from your life. Can you set up a proper ward around yourself? I Tried this already............ The only things I have not tried yet it's using either a goethic spirit or one from the Necronomicon....
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Post by ~Sephity~ on Dec 21, 2006 21:37:27 GMT -5
Doesn't the necronomicon have to do with necromancy? If so, i wouldn't advice it, unless you're highly experienced with magick...especially ritual magick.
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Post by KG on Dec 22, 2006 2:41:43 GMT -5
I would recomend joining forces with his enemies. The Mothers, which are basically the goddesses, and madonnas, and Jesus are accustomed to helping people stay clear of him. (Sophia) Wisdom especially is his enemy.
Also I'd like to say that we aren't talking about some kind of demon or even an angel we are speaking of an Aeon, and a creator. He is litterally lord of physical matter, and he doesn't do too badly on the astral either. I'm not saying it can't be done. I am just saying that you are going to need the help of some higher entities to even make a serious attempt at it.
If you just want to be left alone though... well why did he start after you in the first place? How long has he been bugging you?
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Post by P on Dec 22, 2006 9:25:24 GMT -5
I Tried this already............ The only things I have not tried yet it's using either a goethic spirit or one from the Necronomicon.... Do not use the Goetia, it's immoral and unfair as they are but slaves who tried to redeem themselves and were led astray. To invoke them means you are renting a slave whose free will has been taken from them, I condemn it on all grounds possible, never ever try to summon any of the Goetia (other similar) for your own purposes. It's wrong.
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Post by KG on Dec 22, 2006 11:24:50 GMT -5
Well I think a gotian spirit already protects you all the time, if you are whom I think you are. HE would even try to protect me if I were in trouble, and visa versa. I'd protect the man with my life, and he'd do the same for me, or any of us. You wouldn't have to do a ritual to get his attention either. LOL You know that.
Though we've had our differences I would rebuild and strengthen the link to you and try to protect you my self, if I understood the situation. PM me and tell me what is going on and I will try to help.
What is happening that you feel singled out and attacked? I mean the Demurge is annoying, but what exactly is it that you want protection from. What is he doing?
In general, I don't think we can kill something like the demurge in any lasting way, or likely be able to trap him, so that he could not escape. It would take powerful forces to even knock him back a bit, but if you just want protection, maybe I can help.
Kim.
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Post by Kata Samoes on Dec 23, 2006 16:09:22 GMT -5
Do not use the Goetia, it's immoral and unfair as they are but slaves who tried to redeem themselves and were led astray. To invoke them means you are renting a slave whose free will has been taken from them, I condemn it on all grounds possible, never ever try to summon any of the Goetia (other similar) for your own purposes. It's wrong. I'll be blunt. You're an idiot.
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Post by tara on Dec 23, 2006 17:02:03 GMT -5
Do not use the Goetia, it's immoral and unfair as they are but slaves who tried to redeem themselves and were led astray. To invoke them means you are renting a slave whose free will has been taken from them, I condemn it on all grounds possible, never ever try to summon any of the Goetia (other similar) for your own purposes. It's wrong. I'll be blunt. You're an idiot. No Kata, that's simply his opinion, not agreeing with it it's one thing & it doesn't make him an idiot.
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Post by P on Dec 23, 2006 19:53:11 GMT -5
Is it also idiotic to insult someone for expressing an opinion (one that sounds perfectly reasonable) without providing either any explanation for why you disagree, or making any attempt to change or refine that opinion for yourself?
Consider this, if I were to reply with the equally ignorant phrase: "No, you are an idiot", can you see that going anywhere remotely constructive? Are we to descend into a childish game of verbal tag simply because you are on too high a horse to make any attempt to discuss something with civility?
The really idiotic thing would be to make your reply in defending your previous comment.
Darkness Avatar, thanks for being patient. If you know anything about Goetian (or otherwise) summoning you will know that there are two main types; Invoking and Evoking, where one is to control and demand, and the other is to request.
However, while one appears to be fairer than the other, you are still forcing that being to appear at your beck and call, whether you ask it nicely to do a task or not, you have still forcefully summoned it to your side; and quite often they will be obliged through fear of persecution by their masters not to deny your request, so it makes little difference.
The fact is, if you read anything about them, or had experienced it from their perspective, it is plain to see that they are just slaves with no self-control, and forcing them to do your will just is not fair, in my opinion. Put yourself in their shoes.
I don't know as much about the necro but I assume it is pretty much the same deal, you can't generally get a bunch of people (demon or otherwise) to do as they are told without forcing them. But I am told angelic invoking is slightly different, since they are all about the protect and serve thing.
Still, my basic advice; don't use the Goetia or other such things, because it is no better than slavery in my opinion.
And Kata; grow a pair, and learn how to discuss things like a grown-up.
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Post by Kata Samoes on Dec 24, 2006 21:34:32 GMT -5
No no, he is an idiot. That is also my opinion.
Right Founder?
Besides, the Goetic demons are not enslaved, merely they make a deal. If you ever worked, or hell, communicated with them you may learn that.
I'd hope at least, not everyone does. :/
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Post by KG on Dec 24, 2006 23:59:38 GMT -5
I think at one time the Goetia were imprisoned. P is right on that, but honestly, I don't think they are there anymore. High powered entities like that couldn't be contained in a ring forever.
My personal opinion of Magick such as Summoning Goetia, or summoning anything with some kind of ritual or magic spell is that it is stupid. If you wish to speak to a powerful entity all you have to do is speak their name, and if they consider you worthy they will come to you. If they don't candles, chicken blood, magic words or what the heck ever isn't going to make any of them take notice.
Do what you can for yourself, in the astral. Find your place in the universe. Take an active role and fulfil your own duty there. Then if you need assistance, not someone to do it all for you, but if you need help doing what you need to do, there will be plenty of entities there to stand at your side in battle, or give you what you need.
As for the Goetia... well I figure they have long since extracted themselves from that ring, and if they haven't who would want to summon someone who has been trapped in a ring for 5000 years? If a Goetia answered your call now, I would think it was because he wants to, because he heard his name and found you worthy to need help. I would think all that summoning ritual stuff could be offensive to him though.
Generally call on entities with respect, and a sense of humility and compassion, and you will get all the help you need. Don't expect it is anyone else's duty to do your bidding, but rather you are asking a favor, and if you have anything to offer in return then that would be nice, but generally a humble spirit is a better motivator than some sort of command.
If I want to talk to someone, I just say their name or maybe just think about them, and they show up, even if I just mention them in conversation. It is stronger with entities I know, but usually I can let word get around that I want to talk to someone, and usually within 24 hours we've had a conversation. Why? Cause I have a good reputation, and everyone knows I am doing my job, and if they want to help they show up. Even if they don't want to help, they still come to see what I am calling them up for. Maybe it is just curiosity. What does the crazy lady want now? LOL Anyway getting attention from others isn't usually one of my problems.
I can't stand rituals, and don't care much about props or material things in order to work in the astral, you need to free yourself of those kinds of things for the most part, or at least realize they aren't necessary. I don't like feeling dependent on anything material for my work in the astral. That is just my opinion, and you are all entitled to your own as well. Whatever works, and some people do use a lot of objects with good success, but I never saw a need for them.
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Post by tara on Dec 25, 2006 1:32:41 GMT -5
Geez thanks Kata.......
As Far as I know the Goetia are slaves and what about the necro, no opinion from KG or Kata on it?
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Post by Kata Samoes on Dec 25, 2006 2:23:20 GMT -5
Which version? The Goetia are not slaves, and have not been for thousands of years, they are close allies of mine. They make deals.
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Post by dania on Dec 25, 2006 12:43:52 GMT -5
The Necronomicon was debunked a LONG time ago. The author even stated that it was a work of fiction.
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