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Post by tara on Dec 25, 2006 17:23:51 GMT -5
To Dania: Actually I was more nterested in Kata's response, no offence meant Dania
To Kata: from any author or any verssion which ever you consider it's the truests and more effective.
Thanks Kata much appreciated
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Post by Kata Samoes on Dec 25, 2006 18:57:02 GMT -5
Tyson's Necronomicon is a good one, great for research. Then, in comparison, Simon's. Simon's, though...isn't useful unless you know how to decode some of the facts from BS, I've heard.
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Post by tara on Dec 26, 2006 0:23:09 GMT -5
Tyson's Necronomicon is a good one, great for research. Then, in comparison, Simon's. Simon's, though...isn't useful unless you know how to decode some of the facts from BS, I've heard. KK thank you much
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Post by KG on Dec 26, 2006 0:31:19 GMT -5
Dania does have a point, as far as the tradition of it being an ancient text. Many people feel that if the Necronomicon ever indeed did exist, it is lost and recent writers just use the name to sell books. Many also feel that many of the references to it in other works meant the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which a reliable copy of can be obtained, but I don't know how useful it is. Modern Necronomicons are said to be modern works by modern writers, and compilations of other works that might be still available, but I guess that wouldn't mean they were incorrect. I gather though that they aren't the original book.
I honestly doubt anything like that would be useful against the Demurge, but I guess if you are comfortable using it you could try.
The Gotia are his enemies, but I don't think they could defeat him. I mean if they could, they would have already.
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Post by tara on Dec 26, 2006 9:39:47 GMT -5
Modern Necronomicons are said to be modern works by modern writers, and compilations of other works that might be still available, but I guess that wouldn't mean they were incorrect. I gather though that they aren't the original book. I understand that, though is does not give ground to say like Dania did to dissmiss it altogether as fiction, after all people say it works which it's the desired out come. I honestly doubt anything like that would be useful against the Demurge, but I guess if you are comfortable using it you could try. The Gotia are his enemies, but I don't think they could defeat him. I mean if they could, they would have already. I understand that too however lets not forget whom Solomon professed fealty to and in order not to ruin his reputation he did nothing against Demurge, there are other resources out there I'll just have to dig deeper in order to get my hands on it , the works, but I do understand your and her point, I just wouldn't dismiss it so as she did.
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Post by KG on Dec 26, 2006 17:14:12 GMT -5
Well I admire your spirit, in trying. I have been fighting the demurge for 2000 years. He wins sometimes, I win sometimes, and we have killed each other before, physically, and I know I have killed him on the astral... but it has never changed anything. I mean no matter what I do, he comes back. I haven't been fighting him alone either. I am part of a large group of people who have been fighting him since just prior to creation. This thing goes way back. If you want more information I recomend that you read. the Pistis Sophia, and other Gnostic books found at this site. www.gnosis.org/library.htmlThey have a search engine for thier site, and so maybe you could turn something up there that would be helpful, or at least give you a good idea of what you are up against. As for my story it begins around the year zero, give or take ten years. I worked at the Library of Alexandria. As you know that was the place where all the knowledge of the known world was housed. There were other libraries, but this dwarfed them. That Library was where all the great ancient philosophers, and scholars went to study. It was an amzaing place, but it had many enemies, mostly different religions Christians, Muslims, Pagans, all had factions that despised the library, because it had literature from every known sect and faith. They hated the fact that the other guy's book lay next to theirs. They wanted to destroy the works of so called heritics, and perveyors of false religions, so over and over these different groups tried to burn the library. Even though they were all on different sides, they were all servants of the demurge... unknowingly of course. Demurge has always existed, but he wanted to wipe out knowledge of himself as seperate from the real God. He is the impersonator of God, and he spurs violence. Later after many incarnations the library was destroyed. By then we had had our taste of his murders, and abuses. We sought asylum in Constantinople, in the place and time of the only liberal and generous Roman Emporor, lived. It was there that Gary in his incarnation as Isadore of Miletus worked with another archetect to build the Temple of Holy Wisdom, a tribute to Sophia. It still stands as indestructable, due to the alchemy and advanced scientific practices little known by others at that time. Knowledge from Alexandria. After that we've been incarnated in Southern France, and were persecuted as Cathars. Where we experienced more persecution. We assasinated priests, and an inquisitor who was the incarnation of Demurge at that time. WE ended up burned alive for our deeds, along with our entire community of fellow Cathars, and a very large number of Catholics who were sympathetic to our plight. The Cathars held the last vestages of the Demurge's secret. The secret is that the Demurge is Satan masqurading as God. HE is the maker of matter, and he claims to be the creator. In a sense he believes that, but there is one higher, who made the souls. Demurge means craftsman, and he is very materialistic, warlike and he tortures people. There is a vast collection of myths about him from throughout the world, but they have all been lost in obscurity, as these books have been systematically destroyed, and their readers as well as their writers murdered. The thing is that we come back, reincarnated over and over to battle him. He comes back too, and we are all eternal astrally. The battle has raged since He tricked Sophia into crashing to the formless earth with him. HE attacked her and caused her to miscarry, and from this misshappen, premature fetus, he gained the power to make matter. He created this physical world, to make it concrete, and un yielding instead of astral, and spiritual. He then persued Sophia, who multiply incarnated to prevent being wiped out. He possesses people and makes them feel justified in being war like, murderous, and cruel in the name of God. His influence has been felt by every known religion of the earth, and every kingdom, or center of wealth. He is not just false religion, but also greed, so that where ever you find a spirit like that within a people he is at the bottom of it. He was Amangon, of the Elucidation. He was The curse of Eve in the Garden. He was Hitler, and many Popes. He was the Inquisitors, and he worked for King James. He was the man who stood over Jesus as he was nailed to the cross and laughed, and he was defeated the next day in his own heaven as Christ fought him... never mind the apostles creed verse "He decended into hell..." he did no such thing. He assended to the 14th heaven and stole the keys of death hell and the grave from none other than the Demurge. Demurge is more or less fallen, but it is a confusing thing. Satan rebeled aganst God so it is easy to say he is fallen. Demurge wars with Sophia, and claims to be the righteous one. He accuses her, and he is the one Jesus meant when he said Satan is the Accusor. You are speaking of a Satan so much more powerful than Lucifer. I want you to understand that fully if you intend to fight him. This is not some demon, or little ghost or something this thing is of epic proportion. He is litterally Satan to a greater degree than Lucifer, and he is much more powerful, and dangerous. I am not saying this to discourage you, only saying that you should know what you are fighting. Read up a bit on the Gnostic Gospels, and other Myths from around the world. Study all the religious persecutions and slaughters in history, regardless of nation, and you will start to see a pattern of Demurge VS. Sophia... translated, it means False violent ignorant religion, VS ancient, holy wisdom. It isn't a battle to enter lightly so be careful. Kim
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Post by P on Dec 26, 2006 19:29:44 GMT -5
I can only work off of what I know, and the last I knew they were slaves. I have seen no evidence to the contrary, so I stand by it.
I certainly have no more need to trust a condescending prick who insults people without provocation than my own insight. As far as I am concerned you have earned no right to be believed and you might as well be talking bullshit, Kata.
Maybe they have broken free by now, maybe not. I don't see how if so, but one thing I don't doubt is that the roles have changed hands many times since then. I am sure that none of the original names listed in the old texts are still there, it's probably a whole new set by now.
Even if Kata genuinely thinks he is telling the truth and not intentionally stirring up needless conflict, his own screamingly obvious ego quite probably serves as a barrier on his own clarity. To put it simply, he is probably led to "believe" they are not enslaved, the same way everyone else who invokes them makes the same assumption.
It's most likely simple trickery, it is not the demons you are making deals with, it is the master, they are just being controlled. Or did you think the slavery of which I speak doesn't extend that far? It wouldn't really be slavery if they had the power to rebel, would it? A spiritual slavery is not something to judge by physical logic.
What you see (if anything) is an act, and your own superior attitude makes it thrice easier to deceive you. Since you don't doubt what you see, the simplest of illusions will be your weakness and undoing. But I speak from knowledge of experience when I say that they can "act" any way their master wants, it doesn't mean they are not still slaves.
The illusion of freedom makes for the tightest bonds.
Kata, you have a lot of growing up to do. The more you act like such a jerk to people just because you feel you know better, the less respect you are going to retain. Be thankful KG is lenient, on any other forum you'd be facing a temp ban.
If you really want to prove yourself superior to other people, then try listening to them without resorting to unnecessary hostility for a change, so few people actually do that these days that it would make you look good just for trying to be civilized.
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Post by Kata Samoes on Dec 26, 2006 20:43:03 GMT -5
Founder, you were insulted and didn't even deny who you are.
You could have used that chance to ignore me, instead of getting all your defenses up because I disagreed with you.
You also have no evidence the Goetia are slaves, just as you don't have any that they are not. Neither of us do, either way.
Leave it alone.
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Post by Kata Samoes on Dec 26, 2006 20:45:40 GMT -5
Furthermore, you need to get over your inferiority complex. You've shown many times, that you are not inferior to others until you go apeshit on someone for whatever reason.
And I do not believe I am superior to anyone, not even you, Founder.
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Post by P on Dec 26, 2006 20:53:07 GMT -5
I defend myself from insults, not disagreements. Have your opinion, but don't expect me to take it seriously when you cannot present it with decency.
It is of no consequence who I am or who you think I am, I was posting only to make a warning against the use of Goetia, in the hope that my opinions on the matter would be factored into the decision made.
I know I have no more evidence than you, which is why I was presenting an opinion, not a fact. Nor an insult, unlike yourself.
Slightly hypocritical, isn't it, to ask me to leave it alone then reply with another insult against me? Sounds more like you are childishly trying t get the "last word", do you think this is a game?
It is an act of superiority, to tell someone else they have an inferiority complex. I have done nothing but reply to your insult, if you want to pretend that you can draw insight into my character from that, then go ahead, but it's only you that you are fooling.
Your tactics are getting laughably predictable, first you insight a fight, then you try to take the moral high ground and draw attention to the reaction you get, acting like you honestly did nothing wrong. Seriously, is your social life this boring?
If you must start a fight with me, at least present me with something worth the effort, I've got no more time for angry little boys.
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Post by Kata Samoes on Dec 26, 2006 21:15:26 GMT -5
Criticism, especially constructive, is not an insult.
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Post by KG on Dec 26, 2006 22:06:59 GMT -5
KG doesn't ban. I believe in free speech, and everyone being on equal ground. I don't throw my weight around here, or try to prove myself right at every turn. I accept if someone disagrees with me, as their honest opinion. Different people interperet different things as insulting, and you have insulted me, I have insulted you... sometimes on purpose, and sometimes accidentally. I don't like arguing, but if that is what people wish to do with their time OK.
I choose to ignore this, because I might decide to call someone an idiot at some later point, and then I would feel awful for banning somone for something I did myself. Don't tell me you've never called anyone an idiot on your forum. You throw around words like idiot, nonsense etc. pretty freely, yet you take offense when it is pointed at you. I don't want to practice a double standard, by kicking people off my forum, or deleating posts or moving posts. I don't choose to sensor. This happened so it stays. If you were not here to defend yourself it would be quite different. I wouldn't let someone say you were an idiot if you hadn't come over here.
I have very few rules. I don't wish to do anything I might regret later, like let go of a friend who has helped me, and cause him to leave me with no forwarding address. Unlike P, I know who Kata is and I appreciate him greatly. One man's trash is another man's treasure. You don't want him around, but I do. Why is that hard to understand P? You have friends I don't like. So Kata isn't a kiss up. I have no problem with that. I like him.
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Post by P on Dec 27, 2006 1:34:38 GMT -5
You are right, Kata. I should not have taken your constructive criticizm that I am an idiot personally, I thank you whole-heartedly for advising me that I am, in fact, an idiot. I should instead have learned from it. From now on I will try to be less idioty by talking about my experiences, because to do so when those experiences contradict what you believe, is what makes me an idiot.
And KG, I'm sorry, you clearly picked up on the fact that my telling Kata to be grateful that you are lenient was a obvious threat on my part, implying that you were inevitably going to ban him. Because clearly this is all about you, and my mentioning you in passing was my way of highlighting that I have staked a claim on you.
And so you figured out that rather than this discussion being about me being insulted, it was in fact about who gets to be your friend the most. Which is more than enough reason for you to defend your good name by drawing personal comparison between how I percieve him and how you do, because obviously, your way preveils.
Yes, this has all in fact been a jealous rage on my part, because clearly I felt threatened by having to share a friendship with KG with someone who, while I percieve him to be a perpetual asshole, is actually a guru for enlightenment. And that's why I was posting under the guise of defending myself against an unprovoked insult.
So thank you Kata for helping me see the error of my ways, and thank you KG for having a go at me when I tried to defend myself, because since this is a neutral and passive forum, you let everyone have their say, just not their retort. And quite right too, that free speech stuff gets taken too far sometimes.
In case you haven't noticed, the intention of my posting here was to warn, quite selfishly, against the use of spiritual slavery. However thanks to the quick thinking of team K, it has since become all about how wrong I am about, well anything. So now I have been taught my lesson I shall retreat from this forum and think about what I have learned today.
I have truly been touched by a higher power this day.
Remember, never be ashamed to stand up for who you are, regardless of who you have to stand on.
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Post by tara on Dec 27, 2006 1:41:53 GMT -5
Well I admire your spirit, in trying. I have been fighting the demurge for 2000 years. He wins sometimes, I win sometimes, and we have killed each other before, physically, and I know I have killed him on the astral... but it has never changed anything. I mean no matter what I do, he comes back. ...................... Hm, after reading all this I sense a conflict of interests, not form you madam but from the organizations involved, quite possibly a faction or two in both "friends" & "enemies side.........
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Post by KG on Dec 27, 2006 4:23:58 GMT -5
Soooo Founder, why don't you ban people? I mean you haven't banned Kata, and it would be grossly unfair if you did considering that you speak to him in the same tone he speaks to you. He called you an idiot, but you have called him ignorant before. I fail to see the difference. Tit for tat.
I mearly stated that I don't ban or sensor. I don't ban because if I was fair, I might have to ban myself someday. I assume you don't ban for the same reason, cause God knows you break the rules of your own forum often enough. I didn't comment about your defending yourself. That is your own business, but leave me out of it. I don't ever remember you defending me on YOUR forum. I have gone to bat for people you have insulted, but only when I found what you said much worse than this. If I had corrected you every time you insulted someone's intelect, I would have gotten little else done for months while you were in a crappy mood.
Darkness Avatar, you could be right, just about everyone is slightly contaminated by the Demurge in one way or another. Either they have confused him with God at some point in time, because he pretends to be God, or they hate him so badly that it leads to his kind of behavior. You know the quote about how monster hunters can themselves become the monster. I've done a little of both in my time, and I dont' kid myself that I am not contaminated... but I want to see him dead more than anyone... I just don't know how to kill him so that he stays dead. He is a god basically, putting it in common terms. How do you kill a god?
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