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Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jun 9, 2009 9:35:37 GMT -5
My mother's been dragging me to church almost every day ( I didn't know there was a mass every day) And the general tone of these masses are "convert all non-catholics. Convert them NOW! For their own good, DO IT!" Even the Catholic news paper my mother subscribes to has that tone and listening to a lot of people at school talk, it's very prevalent. Has anyone else who attends church regularly (Or abnormally often) noticed this trend?
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Post by KG on Jun 9, 2009 13:20:42 GMT -5
Christians in general believe that you have to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior in order to go to heaven. The New Testiment tells them that no one is good enough on their own merrit to earn the right to heaven (IT is impossible to live a sinless life, or be GOOD enough.) It is by faith in Jesus, and not by works that we enter heaven. People have to recognize that they are not good enough on their own, and ask Jesus for help. Jesus died for our sins. Therefore one must accept Jesus or else face an eternity of hellfire. That is the basic concept of Christianity. We have to accept and love Jesus, and then try to do as he would want us to. It's kind of smiple really, and that is the universal belief of all Churches, or at least all the ones I know of.
No decent person would want their family, friends and neighbors to go to Hell for all eternity, so they evengelize. They do it because they care, as annoying as it might be to others, who do not believe that. They believe it to the depths of their souls, and Hell is an awful place full of pain, and torment that is endless... so of course they don't want that to happen to anyone.
Most Christians do not believe in reincarnation. They stubbornly believe against it, even though there are at least two examples of it in their own Bible... "If you can believe this, John the Baptist was Elijah," And Elijah will come again in the last days." So here is a guy who was born a couple thousand years before Christ, again in Christ's time, and will come back in the last days as one of the witnesses. But that goes right over their heads. They don't even notice that. So since they do not believe in reincarnation, they believe this one life is the only chance people have to obtain an eternity of either heaven or hell. No wonder they are in a hurry to inform people, and help them convert to Christianity. It is compassion that drives them to do this.
Baptists, Pentecostals and many others believe that there is a certain experience called "Getting Saved" or "Asking Jesus into your heart" They believe this is the only way to awaken the spiritual self. Lutherans, Presbeterians and Episcopals etc. are more gray on this experience, and think Church attendence or a general acknowledgment of Jesus, is enough. In general they are more laid back, and tend to assume that EVERYONE believes in Jesus anyway... at least in this country.
All the churches I have been in, especially all Baptists, and all Pentecostals, believe in evengelizing non Christians. Now Baptists and Catholics both believe they are the only ones who are really going to make it to heaven, and I do know that Catholics do not accept other denominations at all, so they think their church is the only way to heaven. Baptists feel much the same way, but if you say you are 'saved' then they more or less accept this to be true, no matter what church you attend. I could complicate this by talking about Jahovah's witnesses, but I won't. They don't believe at all like any other religion.
Most Churches try to evangelize, if they are really trying at all. Some Churches tend to be more laid back about it than others, but one of the main functions of any church is to Evangelize... convert non-believers. Now most churches recognize that all Christian Churches are basically "Christian" and they have no right to call someone a 'convert' just because they change churches. Some like Baptists and Catholics think they are the only ones though, so they feel that converting other Christians is necessary.
Just like any other orginazation sometimes they step up their efforts and other times they run more slack in certain areas. The new push may have something to do with the uncertainty of the times, or all the doomsday stuff on TV. If they thought the world was ending the most important thing for them to do would be evengelize as many people as possible.
Personally, even though I am a Christian too, my own beliefs on this are more complex. I believe more like the Yogis. Yogis believe in Jesus Christ, but they also believe in Buddha, and Krishna. They believe that the soul/spirit that was incarnated as Jesus Christ, and spoke through him, was also incarnated into Buddha and Krishna, and any number of other prophets through out history. That he went to all the nations, and worked within whatever culture they had to convert them to the law of Love. In addition people who have any sort of spiritual life, will come upon this spirit, whether they recognize it as Jesus, or another figure, or just energy doesn't matter, as long as they experince some form of benevolent spirituality, they will interact with Jesus within their spirits. I believe that if people find that gentle benevolent spirit within their meditations, whatever they call that spirit, it doesn't matter,but if they have the spirit within them, that is the same as being saved. I have met many practitioners of eastern religion who have what I call the spirit of Jesus all over them. I have met many Christians who have another spirit that is miserable, angry and not the love of Jesus.
The bible also says that we will recognize Christians by their fruit, which are love, joy, peace and etc. I am afraid I do not see that spirit in some of the churches anymore, as much as I see other things. There are many spirits that impact us all including Christians, Jesus being one, but there are others, Demurge/anti-christ/Satan type spirits. The other spirits can make Christians, as well as anyone else mean spirited, and hard for sane people not infected with that spirit, to even listen to without feeling irritated. Now some of this feeling may just be love gone wrong within the human psyche... like when you scream at kids for playing in the road. You might seem harsh but only cause you are looking out for their best interest, but harsh and hateful are two different things. Harsh is when you are temporarily forceful out of concern for another, but hateful is when you wish harm on others, out of jealousy or bitterness. When Christians are hateful, bitter and cruel they are not carrying the spirit of Jesus... or whatever YOU might call the benevolent spirit. When anyone else reaches that spirit of benevolence and gentleness... then they know Jesus as well as anyone, no matter what they call him.
The bible calls us to worship in Spirit and in Truth. That is not the same as physically going to church and physically going through the motions of religion, without opening up your spirit to the powerful but gentle forces of God. It also says that Jesus stands at the door of our hearts and knocks. He does not force the door. He does not overpower us. He is a gentle spirit. When we open our hearts to that warm benevolent spirit he comes in. When we close our hearts to benevolence, the way physical material people do, then it is hard to let Jesus in, no matter how many times a week you go to church. I really believe that if you seek God you will find him, and whatever tradition you follow the spirit is the same. The spirit is either in you, or not. You either know how to let that in or you don't.
Now almost everyone has days when they are not the pure reflection of Love. We may have periods where we just don't "feel it" but in general Christians and other benevolent faiths should at least usually put off a vibe of love compassion and concern for others. If they don't ever feel that way then something is wrong. It takes more than attending Church and going through the motions to be a Christian. It takes a spiritual awakening, such as being saved, or an eastern awakening, followed by a heartfelt love for others which at least usually overrides all other emotions. To me that spirit is what makes the difference, not what church you go to, or what country you are born in, or even whether or not you mentally understand theology. It is all about spirit at least for me.
Kim
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Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jun 12, 2009 10:20:08 GMT -5
I understand that a church must convert others and the reasons behind that. But what I was trying to get it as that it sounds like they're wanting violent conversion, such as during the Burning Times. The churches I've been going to with my mother (forced to attend) were always ones that gave with free will. They all pretty much said that "as long as you followed the basic tenants, you're good." I started noticing this trend more though when I went every day to different churches my mom wanted me "listen to". They all seem to be preaching conversion by sword.
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Post by KG on Jun 14, 2009 15:58:32 GMT -5
OMG!!!! No I didn't get that point from the first post. I remember a little about those times and I sure hope we don't go back to that. I get chills just thinking of that.
Conversion by fear or force IMO isn't conversion at all, it is just oppression, and having to pretend to believe something you really don't.
OH Dear!!! Are all these Catholic Churches? Maybe it has to do with the new pope? You know John Paul was very reasonable and liberal, and most popes in the past were not that way. This New Guy... I know his name but refuse to even type it... grrr... has already ticked me off. He said some really stupid things in Africa against using condoms, for one thing... and his energy feels.. Nazi like (Demurgian) I don't trust him. He gives me the creeps.
As for the other churches, some of the churchs I used to go to felt very angry and hateful before I left... that's why I left really. I felt uncomfortable in that environment. Anyway I hope the Catholics do not turn Evil again.
I don't think they could ever get back the degree of power they had in the Dark ages, at least not in modern countries, but I wouldn't say they were exactly powerless now days either.
That's just creepy!!! Thanks for the warning. I'll try to research a little if I have time, and see if I can find any recent catholic teachings or lessons or sermons, on line.
Kim
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Post by Ashira Bloodmoon on Jun 24, 2009 14:24:48 GMT -5
I don't know if it's related, but things have been feeling "tight" strained... around here.. not in the people but the general atmosphere. My people's lands are growing darker but that is the time of year here, but it seems slightly different. Not a threat, but more of nature coiling up, preparing to strike... at something... It may or may not be related to what Lan has been sensing though.
I myself have felt the need to change stances, so to speak. I am using Lan's motto now. It seems appropreat.
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Post by KG on Jun 24, 2009 19:13:08 GMT -5
First of all Ash IT IS GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU!!! Love ya... I've seen you around the castle and such but it is great to get a message from you on this plain as well.
I am sorry to hear that things are feeling tense in your world. Your place is usually so comfortable. I like the way it feels normally. I haven't been visiting lately though. I am still resting and staying pretty close to home.
I do not know what it means but yes it could be related. I know a lot of things do seem tense lately... It could be the planetary actions that Kata's been talking about which are causing a shifting of magnatism, and energy of the earth's poles is impacting the astral planets as well. IT could also be related to other things going wrong on earth... the failing economy, the general distress that is bringing to everyone. All our energies impact the other worlds, as well as this one. It is most ways, I think everything is related, because there is a connection between all things, it is just a matter of figuring out how.
Anyway Thanks for reporting. I appreciate the information, and it is defininitely a factor to consider in trying to figure out the bigger picture. Let me know if it gets worse, or if there is anything I can do to help. Sometimes when our area sends baked goods into another area it helps... funny how much difference some good brownies and cookies and cakes make. LOL
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