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Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Feb 8, 2006 19:27:13 GMT -5
Usually I do not do things like this, but someone said it'd be good for me...
Throughout my life, I've grown up knowing I was below everyone in all ways. I've been told how stupid I was, how everything I said wasn't how it really was, sometimes even flat out called a liar. Most of this was from my parents. I grew up believing those lies about me. I never did well in school because of them and I've never excelled in anything. All I did was get in trouble for stupid things such as cleaning my room without permission, or eating at the wrong time. This has made me withdrawn and aloof, never wanting to be near someone. I've never been in a serious relationship longer than a year because sooner or later, I have to chose between confronting my parents and risk getting put on the streets, or the person that I want to be with, so I generally push the person I want to be with away because I need a place to live. To top this all off, I'm a pagan who, if I tell my parents this, I'll get kicked out and bisexual. Again, if I say this to my parents, I get kicked out. I can't hold in my anger because if I do, something worse comes out and I can't let it out because if I do, I get thrown out of my house.
In a crouded room, I feel alone. In an empty room, I feel inadiquit... No matter who I'm with, I feel out of place, alone, overwhelmed.... If that person cares for me, it depresses me because I cannot open up and when I start to, I stop myself by making up something stupid that in the end gets me into more trouble. I rarly have anyone to talk to any more and I stay in my room. I feel I can't get a job because I'm... slightly overweight. I feel caught mentally, physically and spirtually in a cage that I can't get out of. Then recently, when I began to change, everything crashed down around me when someone I actually cared for started to not talk to me. This person brought everything I've hated about myself back in my face but I faught through it and now we rarly talk at all because I've changed and she dosn't like it. I ran from her and found another but she too, recently decided that everything that I've ever doen and said was a lie... indeed it has because I've been lieing to myself, thinking that I'm ment for a real relationship as I am now. Though I'm on the mend with the first woman, the second now refuses to talk to me at all and it's not because of me splitting my time between them but something else. I realize now that I'm in the wrong and I wish to GOD that someone would have woken me up sooner, that maybe I'd not be sitting here trying to hide my knife so that I won't be able to find it later tonight. *** I'm at my ropes end and I'm ready to beak. It seems that when one thing falls apart... everything does I want to scream but I can't without being locked away. I'm lost and confused. I don't know what to do. I'm about to throw my hands up and say 'F***K IT ALL!" and then get lost in this cold world that I'v created for myself... and never come out.
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Post by stonerwolf on Feb 9, 2006 0:41:23 GMT -5
wow man that sucks. i feel your pain, however i do not share the same circumstances of not being able to be open with my sexuality or beliefs... i take my parents for granted, and i know this, but i still feel very uncomfertable telling anyone about my sexuality, it's my private life and if anyone's going to know, it should be from experiance but i have a lot more weighing down on me, because of my sympathetic nature which i am actually ... well not ashamed of, but i cant think of a better word... i cant stand the way the world works, the way the world IS, it really brings me down, not because this is what is, but because i cant do jack shit about it. if i could at least project and feel like i am of some use on the astral, i'd feel a lot better, but im too weak minded to put forth the proper effort to go out of body, or to even practice techniques, i am ashamed of this, and yet apathetic at the same time, which also adds up to bringing me down. do you have an @hotmail.com e mail, or any way we can chat on MSN messenger? i'd like to at least give you an outlet for these bottled up emotions, i've found it to be quite helpful to just vent... however in my case it's also depressing since nothing ever changes, but who knows? maybe you have room for that change? you never know untill you find out, and i could even be wrong, there could still be something i am missing that could at least help me cope with my problems, but that hope... unfortunately, hope depresses me as well.... but dont let me get you down, i just want to help
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Post by Wunderkind on Feb 9, 2006 15:01:21 GMT -5
I can't say I really relate to you on deep levels, but I can say I do understand some of where you are coming from. Honesty: I hope things work out for the better and that perhaps you can find a new outlook on the world that is better for you.
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Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Feb 10, 2006 1:57:47 GMT -5
I'm slowly coming out of this darkness... but this time, it's going to take a long time to fully recover... I've moved out on my own and I'm currently looking for a job. As of yesterday I have three interviews lined up... I just needed to blow everything out and my doctor said that doing so in a semi public environment would help... indeed it has...*smiles faintly*
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Post by KG on Feb 10, 2006 12:56:38 GMT -5
You sound like you are making two steps in the right direction by moving out, and getting a job, but I somehow missed the part about the great tradgedy of this situation. I don't mean to be harsh, but I really don't get it.
You have been living with your parents, who have been feeding, clothing, and housing you, and paying your medical bills from day one? You are 23. If you live in another person's house they have a right to insist that you abide by their rules. I admit the food thing and the non room cleaning thing is strange, but the rest sounds reasonable, and none of this would qualify as abuse.
You have a right to believe whatever religion you desire, but they have a right to tell you not to practice it under their roof. They even have a right to be upset about your choice of religion. They are your parents, and their desire to make you whatever religion they are is not unusual at all.
Being overweight doesn't stop you from getting a job. My husband weighs 340 pounds and has worked all his life. Your inexperience (absence of work record) is the only hold up I see. Why didn't you get a job at 16 or at least by 18... I wouldn't ask, but your interviewers will. Think of a good answer for this question, but please get a job now, or it will be even harder later.
Overall it sounds like a normal life. Your parents are normal. It doesn't sound like you are abused. The only problem I see is an absense of independence, and responsibility on your part. You are correcting that, which is a good thing. It is time for you to get a job an d move out, and that is what your parents have been trying to tell you.
OK so you have lost two relationships because of your lying and two timing. Well by twenty three most guys have done that, but it isn't nice, and that is why you are having problems.
You say your parents interfere with your romantic life... well you are the one who has been allowing that. Now you are the one putting a stop to it by moving out. That is also a good thing. There are a lot of women out there, and there is no use getting all upset about a couple of them. You are making changes in your life, and once you have established yourself in the world by working and getting a job, it will be much easier to find a girlfriend. Most women want a guy who has a job and his own place, simply because it is hard to respect a man who doesn't. I mean I personally think that men or women who stay with elderly parents, and try to help them out is a compassionate thing to do, but a guy living off mom and dad, and not try to establish a life of his own is a bad sign. It shows a lack of dicipline.
Overall it sounds like you have made some great decisions, stick to them and it will definately change your life forever. Moving out without a job was a bold move, and one you will have to back up with immediate action. Get a job. I don't care if the first one is flipping burgers or working in a convienience store, at least it is work. Once you land a job to survive on then look for a better one. Do you have any education? A little college maybe? That will help. Anyway good luck and you are making all the right choices now. Just calm down about the romantic situation, and do what you need to do first. The rest will fall in line. As you grow and change you will find that a different kind of girls like you, than did before anyway, and you will have more choices as you mature, and become an independent adult man. Women and people in general will respect you more now that you are really trying to merit it.
All that is uncalled for. Things are finally looking up, and you are growing up. This is no tradgedy. Use it for your advantage.
I could sit here an type you lolly coddling soothing words, but I don't think that is what is needful here. You are not a child, and you need to stop being treated like one, and to start being the man you were born to be. You are right. You need to get a job and move out. You need to find your own space, and make a life for yourself. That doesn't mean people can't help you, but you are strong enough to pull through this even if they don't. Everyone is, and everyone has to do this. It is part of growing up. This is a good thing, and you worry too much.
Nothing is falling apart. You are growing up, and that is a good thing. Being 18 or 23, or even 33, doesn't make you grown up. Getting out there and making a real life for yourself is the only thing that seperates the men from the little boys. You are old enough to be a man, so get out there and be the man. You can do it. There is no need to be afraid. Just take that bull by the horns. Little boys are lost and confused, men are decisive. You were decisive when you moved out, and decided to get a job, instead of laying around the house whining about your very average, parents, and the results of your multiple partner love life.
You are a man, and you will not fall apart. People are tougher than that. Find your strength, and your inner power. Even little boys know how to buck up and do what they have to... if they have to, and now you have to so go get um. YOU can do this! It really isn't that hard to support yourself, get a place to crash away from your parents, and find a decent girlfriend. You will probably loose the excess weight by working, or at least tone up into a more manly build. If not take long walks after work, and that problem will probably take care of itself, unless you have some eating disorder or physical problem.
My point is you will survive. I have known several people as young as 15 who were tossed out of their parental homes, sometimes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They are in their 30's and 40's now and still alive, and doing just as well as anyone else. They made it. They survived, and you will too. Sure it was hard at first, but it got easier. After the first check you will have no problems, and believe it or not, you need very little to survive. Now prospering is another thing, and that comes next right now, just get the basics by working. The rest will come.
Everything will be fine, and you can make it in the world if you try. Give it a shot, and just do your best. You are going to be alright. Just stop thinking of yourself as weak and helpless, because you are not. No one is weak and helpless unless they choose to be.
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Post by stonerwolf on Feb 11, 2006 23:52:35 GMT -5
in my honest and blunt opinion, the only reason they have the right to make rules in their house is because they have to PAY for their house, and everything in it. if it were not for the currency and having to AFFORD things, they could only give you (a) workload to do to earn your room, other rules, such as dont clean your room w/o permission, and religious/spiritual impositions, are complete bullshit.
as long as you are doing something for them, offering your service in any way, to earn your room, and whatever else you do to earn food, and it is a fair trade, they must earn the right to make rules, and currency affords them an excuse.
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Post by KG on Feb 13, 2006 22:47:01 GMT -5
Obviously Stoner and I have a very different view of working. I will explain my POV, even though it differs from Stoners. I am not disrespecting Stoner’s views but simply stating my own.
Modern society obscures the bare fact that life is about survival. We don't build a fire, to stay warm, and we don't build our own homes. We don't kill our own food, and we no longer starve if we don't do these things. Most people prefer it this way because overall it is easier, and the earth is not big enough to provide for our current population in the manner in which our ancestors survived.
Instead of building fires, we have electricity, provided by the power company. The power company requires cash check or money order to be paid. That is currency, no matter how you slice it. Without electricity your computer won’t work, and the police will actually become involved if you don’t have it. They will remove any children in your care to a foster home. They will condemn your place of residence, and you will loose your house. Therefore the power company alone provides a very good reason why you need cash money. There is no way to barter with a power company, and loosing their service, amounts to the loss of your family, your children, your home and the involvement of all kinds of government institutions.
Everything costs money. From farm equipment, to Doctor bills, and without money you die. It is that simple. In order to get money you work. Whether it is obvious or not people survive by their work, and without that work they are either die or are a burden to someone else. Someone has to work, and if they are doing that, and providing the fruits of their labor, while you don’t, it is only because they love you.
I know what it is like to work. It actually varies a lot from job to job, and even day to day. It can be fun, rewarding, and interesting, or it can be hot sweaty and intimidating, but either way you do it for the check. Mostly you do it for your family, and for your self respect. You do it to hold your life together, and without it everything will fall apart.
The truth about your parents is that these loving and generous and perhaps sometimes unreasonable people will get old, sick, and eventually die. You cannot count on someone else for your sustenance. It is your job and your responsibility to get prepared to care for them. To provide them with the things they so generously provided you with. When they are living under your roof, then you can make them live by your rules, if you really want revenge, but caring for them in their old age is your responsibility. So is supporting a wife and kids, if you choose to get married.
You may find a way to cheat this system, by having premarital sex, and spawning children, you can’t afford, but that is irresponsible.
Stoner has said that money represents the government, and it may in a way, but everything is the government. The government is observing your internet activities as we speak. The government is on the streets in the form of police who can arrest you on little more than a whim. The government decides if your home, car, food and medication are safe. The government provided your education, and most likely tried to brainwash you in the process, so you cannot escape them completely, no matter how hard you try. Sure they are corrupt, but they are also in control.
To me money doesn’t represent the government in any way. They just manufacture it. Money is the sweat, and blood, and risk that people expend to earn it. It is the love your dad has for your mom, that he goes to work every single day whether he feels like it or not, so that she will have a pretty home with lacy curtains, and you will have food in your belly and that new video game. It is all about love. Parents love their children, and they are no doubt concerned and puzzled by your attitude. They wonder why you don’t appreciate all they do. I mean here you are sitting in your room, which they provide, playing with a computer, and downing them for what they have to do to get that. It sounds like they really did too good of job of providing for you, and doing for you. You thumb your nose at their values, maybe because they didn’t explain them properly but still. The bottom line is you can’t live your life on the internet. You can’t live your life in your room. Life is working and working is life. Working gives life, and it is a sign of love when people share what they have worked for, but you have no right to take advantage of that forever, and give nothing back in return.
Children can afford all kinds of idealism. They can think it is cruel to kill the chicken cow or pig. (I am a farm girl) They can talk about ecology, and government corruption. They can call hard working people the man. They can think what they like, in that time of innocence, but in adulthood they have to compromise their ideals, or find their way around them in order to survive. Ideals are important, honor is important too, but there is no greater ideal than to provide for your family. Without that everything is meaningless.
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Post by stonerwolf on Feb 14, 2006 2:33:17 GMT -5
KG, that 'brainwashing' you mentioned... *sigh* it is fueled by currency, everything is, you said it yourself... all in all, spending money hurts you in the long run, to help you in the short run, the immediate moment.
cause and effect are not generous in the world of money unless you have a very large sum to rely on, but even then, you're inadvertly hurting other people by spending your money.
responsability comes before family, and in my opinion, so does honnor, because your family must be the most honnored.
before you can start a family, you must establish your morals, find safe ground with which you may uphold your own self before you bring it upon you to support another person, let alone a family.
too many people, too many compromises, and too many compromises that must be made in order to gain your materialistic happyness, in exchange for your morals and possibly your honnor.
i made the "mistake" in chosing to keep my own self respect by retaining my morals, and as much honnor as i could. in most opinions, not having a job would be rather dishonnorable because of the whole currency situation largely explained by KG.
but if one can look past the job circumstances, they would see i am more honnorable than most people, because i chose to refuse to compromise my moral beliefs.
without family, everything is meaningless, but if your morals are so meaningless to be exchanged in order to start a family you're just letting the world fall apart. not even trying to keep it together, just destroying it for your own desires. look at the living quality, it's pretty stressfull, isnt it? everywhere you go, things just plain suck in general, and you've probably asked why it has to be like this, havent you?
it's because everyone compromised everything in order to get what they wanted, so they could be happy before they died, and in the process screwed it up for everyone who came after them, and it jsut followed that trend.
now, wherever you look, there's someone who's parents' parents didng care, and/or neglected to raise a child with common sense or a moral conscience. and their children suffer the fate of having half educated ignorant parents who dont have a clue as to what they are doing.
and money is no help, money is hard for these people to get in order to help themselves and/or their children.
all because they jumpped into their wants and desires, without paying much, if any heed to their moral ideals or honnor.
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Post by KG on Feb 14, 2006 10:34:58 GMT -5
Well Stoner this is an interesting debate, but I want you to realize that I am not downing you or your values. I am questioning the feasability of your methods though. I see the problems of society also. We have all made sacrifices, and done things differently to avoid the system, or protest the system. I chose to homeschool my kids, so they would avoid the brainwash. I've tried to go off the grid before. I've tried to figure out much of the same equation you are, but as far as I can see it can't be done, with a family of four. I seriously doubt it could be done for one, unless you become a street person, and gain the ability to live without eating.
I just don't think the cashless thing is feasable, for most people including myself. I mean if you can get it to work for you great. Do it and then write a book, telling the rest of us how to do it, cause I don't have a clue how it could work. So far you have an unproven theory, and an uninvented process. You might as well be telling cave men they need a light bulb. No one has figured out how to survive without using cash yet.
You aren't doing it because you are still spending money, and costing money. Until you can make your theory work, by supporting yourself, cutting a deal with the Electrical company to take chickens, or whatever it takes, then I don't think you can go around telling people that you live with out cash. You don't live without cash, you are living on someone else's cash. There are already plenty of people doing that, and so that isn't unique.
Overall I have never singled out cash as the main problem. There are so many problems I don't think it all comes down to that one thing, but certainly that one thing is tangled up with all the other things that are messed up. I have instead figured you needed cash to fix the problems. The last time I figured I could drop off the power grid if I had enough money. I could avoid the persecution of living my own lifestyle, if I had enough money... I thought money was the answer not that problem. I don't know maybe it is both, and maybe it is neither, but the fact remains you can't live in today's world without it, or at least I don't see how.
Right now the only thing that makes me think this might not be impossible, is because I don't tend to use the word impossible lightly. I would be glad to try to figure out how you could survive this way, and we've talked about it before, but you cannot expect others to do what you aren't doing, and simply not working for cash doesn't mean that you don't use it.
Here is the list of obsticles involved in the cashless idea.
Problem number one. Not only is cash, cash. All items represent a cash value. Nothing exists anymore that someone didn't pay for in one way or another, originate from something that cost money, or consume something that costs money. Therefore we can express most anything in dollars and cents. That is an ideological problem right away. Nothing exists apart from cash.
Problem number two: The rest of the system resists cashlessness, more than any other crime. Street people are told to move on or be arrested. Poor people are accused of crime more often than rich people. There are city ordinances that try to dictate what you can have in your yard, as far as all your stuff has to look a certain normal way. They get involved in how you dispose of your trash, and what kind of vehicles and equipment you can have in your yard. If the place gets run down they can condemn it, and they can make you move your stuff. If you are poor, that is all the more reason for them to harrass you. Child welfare constantly dogs the heals of the poor, and those of us who do anything out of the norm. People who live in poverty, or try to live without electricity, or really just live in a way that isn't the modern yuppie ideal, can loose their children, and are forced in that way to conform. It is like taking your kids hostage, and saying you have to live like everybody else, or we will take you kids, and let someone else raise them who does. I've been threatened before so I know.
Overall if you make any attempt to get out of the system, and live differently than your neighbors, you will be harrassed by various community services, and law enforcement agencies.
Problem 3 Electricity: As for me, I could live just fine without electricity, except for the fact I couldn't watch TV or use the computer. I know how to survive, and with a little work, and a little money, I could switch the house over to work without it. The problem is they don't want you to do that, and they make a big fuss out of the things that won't work without electricity. You could have your house condemned, you could loose your kids, and believe me, the more you hook up to this system, in order to make it workable, the more it money it costs. Solar energy pannels aren't cheep, and neither are all the batteries, generators, and ect. Methane, is workable, but I was worried about what the officials might say if they found out we had a tank of feces and garbabe in the back yard. I am sure that the public health department would have a problem with it, and no doubt child welfare would get involved... the usual nightmare that happens every time you try to get out from under them.
Problem number 4. You can't get anything started without capital. Without land one can't live off the land, and land costs money. If you are able to obtain land the first thing you would want to do is build a home. Now you must have a building inspector. Believe me, everything they insist on costs money. One thing they absolutely insist on is electricity, and running water. If within certain areas, you must hook up to city water and sewer. If not then you need electricity to run your well. So you are going to have bills. It is built into the process. Then provided you wanted to go with the living off the land idea, you need seeds and farm equipment. Tractors are incredibly expensive. A mercedies benz is cheep by comparison. You can farm with a mule, but you are going to have to get in incredible physical condition to hold up to that. It is hot, sweaty and heavy work. Still the mule and an antique or replica plow are going to cost money. Seeds also cost money. Fertilizer costs money, pesticides cost money, and organic is just buggy, unless you know what you are doing. It actually costs even more to raise organic too.
Problem 5. If you make a stir getting your place up, or if you are not totally isolated your neighbors may complain about you. They may fear your differences, and worry that your place will devalue their place. They will call, anon. of course and complain to officials, so that you catch even more heat. You will draw attention, and the system will be against you from day one. Basically you will call attention to yourself, and that is the last thing you want. They will be most interested in how you plan to fund your activities, and they will investigate every little aspect of your life. No doubt they will make sure everything you do is legal, and I do mean everything! If it isn't I am sure you will be prosecuted, or rather persecuted to the full extent of the law.
I am not saying it is impossible. I am just speaking from experience, and the results of efforts I and others have made to get out of the system in various ways. Dropping out of site, disappearing, and and becoming a drifter can be done. You can live without social security number or being tracked, if you have to, but it isn't easy. It requires a small amount of cash though, and you need to earn cash while you drift. Setting up a farm can be done, but it requres huge amounts of money. Living without the power company can be done, but that also requires unspeakable amounts of cash to get started, and a lot of work, and some money to maintain.
I don't know Stoner, maybe it would work in another country, but I doubt it. It would be dangerous to find out.
Volunteer work might be an option, you know like joining the peace corps. I think they would feed you, and you could help people, but you would still need some money... a lot less living like that. Anyway I can't figure out how you can live like that, much less how everyone could live like that. Your moral issue is just that your moral issue. I see some merit in it, but I just don't see money as the problem.
To me the problem is Wal-mart, GW, and Duke Energy. The problem is those yuppie B.'s that look down their nose and call Child welfare if you don't dress like they do, and don't make your home look like theirs. The problem is law enforcement that is set up to harrass the poor into extenction. The problem is that we live in a dictatorship, an olegarcy, and a beurocracy all at the same time. Free country? I laugh, there is nothing free here.
Overall you are talking to the wrong person if you want me to join your cause. I don't have a lot of fears, but I have to admit I am phobic about poverty, mostly because I have lived with it. It has been the wolf that chases me in my nightmares, and at times it was still there when I woke up in the morning. I fear it even more than the government, simply because it works hand in hand with government so that if poverty takes you first, you are helpless within the system. Facing the system without money, is like facing an army without a gun. Do you know what facing an army without a gun amounts to? A firing squad. No thanks Stoner. I can't go with you on this. I can advise, and I can point out problems, but I see no solution to them.
To me family is a number one responsibility, and there is no life appart from it. It is the reason for existance, and without it nothing matters anyway. Taking care of my parents, and my children are the priorities which outweigh all other priorities. I can't do that without money. I can't do that and be a true rebel, as I would love to be. I admit that without family, my fears of poverty would be a lot less, but still living without money... yep I have done it but not by choice, and I wouldn't call it living. My only thought was how to get money, and I did. I panic if my wallet is empty, even now. I don't like that feeling. So good luck, but I can't do it. I don't want to do it, and I would rather skydive into a teacup without a parachute. My death would at least come quickly that way, and it wouldn't hurt anyone else.
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Post by stonerwolf on Feb 14, 2006 16:15:13 GMT -5
okay, KG, you're right about one thing, it IS impossible to break free, which only makes it so far more important TO DO SO. it's the MORALITY of that matter more than anything else. einetine said "the world is an evil place not because people do evil things, but because they look on and do nothing.
everyone with a job and money is looking on and doing the opposite of helping.
spending money is the begining of the process of evil in this world. it is an artificial and unnessacary resource in the world. what good comes of it? everyone lives in debt unless they're born in a rich family, and even then, what good comes of it? you can help yourself with it, you can help others with it, sure, but if it werent for the money, WOULD YOU really help yourself or others?
money makes us so weak, and the rich and powerful can, AND DO use it to make us weaker, stupider, and MORE RELIANT on money!
the more we rely on money, the more impossible it will be to live off the land when the world finally falls apart.
the native americans had the perfect way of life, and the europeans snuffed that away like it was nothing. thanksgiving isnt even celibrated, and in fact it never was, escept by the native americans.
do you have thanksgiving leftovers? you didnt celibrate the real meaning. ESPECCIALLY if any of the food goes bad and gets thrown out.
thanksgiving is about USING what you have killed, HONNORING it's death, be it animal or vegetable. leftovers go against the point of celibrating thanksgiving; to use up all the excesses of food, to use it before it goes bad, to prevent wasting it.
this society is revolving around waste. we create excessive excesses of things we need, and about half of it ends up going bad before people buy it.
all these jobs that support yourself and your family also produce more waste and corruption. industrialized jobs are pollutive, and produce unnessacary "needs" like cars we've grown too dependant of, like computers we've grown too dependant of, like manufacturing robot parts... all things that make our lives easier in the short run ruin the world for everyone who follows in later generations.
this ignorance is appaling, and it never ceaces to amaze me how so many massive amounts of people can be so genuinely unaware of the full extent of their actions. do people seriously have no clue how cause and effect works? i mean dear god, i've seen things like this since i was at least 11 years old, at least that is when i can remember most of my hatreds toward "civil"ization and societies surfacing. it could have been as early as 9 that i began realizing these things.
all in all, i just cant believe the massive unawareness levels in humanity, granted they appear to be getting better, but my impaitence prevails in this case lol
im just kinda going where the flow takes me, im not pusing anything offline, online, i try to get people's attention brought up about these things... there's nothing i can actually do in person. i know there are a lot of voulenteer groups and such, but the whole money issue puts me off about pretty much everything......
and dear god, KG, read yyour damn post, and tell me you dont see the illogical and inhuman flaws with society! you pointed them out yourself!
of all the time we need to fight for our freedom again, i'd say it was now.
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Post by KG on Feb 14, 2006 22:40:30 GMT -5
Yes Stoner, I know the world is corrupt. So do most people deep down, and we all see different things wrong with the system. Each one of us sees the enemy as a different thing. I find your blaming the cash itself is strange, or maybe unique is a better word. I've never met anyone who didn't like money before.
I just see currency as sort of like the gun issue. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Money doesn't hurt people, and in our society the lack of it kills. If you are faced with an army of people with guns, and you want to rise above the whole immoral gun thing, then you are going to die. Fight Fire with fire. Fight guns with guns, and fight money with money. IT is just going to take some of that to get anything accomplished.
I don't see where your lone boycott of cash is going to make a difference, except by messing up your life. I don't see how you are helping the situation, or really fighting it either. Even if cash is the problem, the main problem with cash is that some people have it and others don't.
Lately more and more money is ending up in the hands of about 3 percent of the population, while the rest of us do without. That isn't the fault of the paper money, it is the fault of the government.
Without money people suffer and die. Sure there is a hand out for some, but those of us afraid of admitting to a government agency that we are poor, for fear of persecution, are not helped. I feared answering some of the questions the government asks... even for free medical care, and dental care when we really needed it. People un accustomed to those questions can say the wrong thing and either get in trouble, or not get help, even though they are also needy. In general I am terrified of government agencies.
I've known a lot of groups that singled out different elements of our society as evil. The Mad Mothers are against alcohol and cars... especially together. They spend a lot of time and energy persecuting alcoholics. They have not succeded in making people stop drinking and driving, but they have increased the number of people in prison considerably. I think that is a kind of mixed result, but these people are sincere.
There are war protesters, and while I pray they are successful, so far the war in Iraq wages on, against all common sense.
I used to go to church and hang around with Christians a lot. Those people suddenly developed a whole list of things wrong with society. They blamed pornography, alcohol, gambling, drugs, video games, dancing, liberals, rock music, TV, movies, abortion, sex, witchcraft, and the devil.
In general the church is self righteous and hypocritical. They follow their little self made rules, and feel better than anyone else because of it. They still sin, but they don't count greed, gluttony, gossip, envy, and pride. They only worry about immorality... translation pleasure. They are against pleasure. Personally I have had it with other people telling me right from wrong, and making up rules to suit themselves. Rules that aren't biblical or even common sense. The fact is to deny the flesh without understanding why leads to greater sins of the heart, namely gossip, envy and pride.
I also used to read a lot of conspiricy theory. Those people worry about govenment having too much power. They fear the misuse of law enforcement, army and FEMA against American Citizens, They fear survalience, gun control, and even social security numbers. They are afraid of any sort of tracking systems, especially Global Positioning systems interfacing with people's cars. They fear black helicopers, and mysterious concentration camps which they believe we will all end up in. They blame the CFR, the world banks, world trade, the UN, and corruption in government.
Well personally I fear totalitarian government, war, poverty, and religious persectuion directed at any group or groups. I am not too wild about the CFR, world banks, world trade.. etc. I have a big problem with yuppies who borrow money and misuse credit to make it look like they are rich when they are poorer than I am, and then look down their nose at a crazy old rednecks like me, who just aren't comfortable with borrowing money. I hate credit card companies who say they charge 2 percent interest, and then next thing you know they charge 25 percent. That should be illegal, and these people belong in jail.
I don't like using credit, but I have before. I wish I could say otherwise but yes I did try it. I didn't like it though, and will never again own a credit card. Do you know that the bible says people who loan money at unfair interest are going to hell. I actually like that idea. It strikes me as completely fair. The thought of all those rich fat cat bank presidents, roasting in a litteral fire, makes me smile... that is evil of me, and I don't even know if it is litterally true, but it is a nice thought.
I do like cash. I pay cash for everything. It isn't easily traced, and your purchases remain your business. Cards and checks are traceable. Sometimes you have to use them, but I refrain from that as much as possible. In general I only use checks and debit cards when it is either the only way, or beneficial for me to do so.
To me the greatest problem is the brain washing. The idea that some people are important, and others aren't is at the heart of the lie. Rich people believe that they are the only ones important. Poor are expendable to them. Religious people have contempt for the sinner, the barbarian, and the heritic. They think that their self righteous denial of who they are makes them better than everyone else, but it is just a lie, cause inside they are just as dirty as the next guy. The smart people of the world think that they are superior. They judge the merrit of a human being by his IQ. They think that they will be preserved while others perish. The conformist thinks that as you said conforming, and being silent will save them, but save them from what? They have succumbed already. Perhaps those who work have contempt for those who don't also, and feel more worthy than the unemployed. Races also feel superior. Cultures feel superior. Most people when watching some poor child die in a foreign land are not as moved as they should be. Especially if that child is of another race, religion, or culture. If the people of Iraq were lighter skinned, more educated, spoke english and were Christian, more people would be concerned. The war protests would be much louder, but we have been brainwashed against the arab, for decades. A slow erosion of their worth in the eyes of the average american now says that they are not worthy of life.
Even more sad are the people who are convinced that their own lives are not important. Every day the government makes you feel like a number. They treat us as no more than cattle, and your social security number is the tattoo on your inner lip, the tag on your floppy cow ear, is your credit card number, and your address is nothing more than the USDA stamp they will mark on your carcass, once you are dead. That is what they are telling us, and that is what many people believe.
This is not true however. Every life is sacred, and we are all important and special. We all have a role to play, and we must be about that business. WE have to discover and follow our own dharma, and not that of another person. Fruther, we do have to survive.
You say that using money is easier in the short run. I am saying that using money is important in order to make it to the long run. Not all of us have someone who can support us indefinately, nor would all of us feel comfortable allowing them to. I say we fight back in whatever way we can, with what ever we can get our hands on. That we do make our lives count for something. That we prove that we are not cattle. In order to do that we have to first find a way to survive, and persevere, we can't turn up our nose at the resources that are put before us. WE aren't sacrificial lambs, waiting to be starved out.
You are important Stoner, and only you know what you have to do. Only I know what I have to do. If you want to live a life free of currancy, and that is your true dharma, then you have to find a way to do that really, and not just immagine it. You are not doing that now, and you must find a way.
On the other hand if your dharma is to put an end to this madness, not just for you, but for everyone you are going to have to see the bigger picture. I mean so what if you don't work, sit in your room typing on the net, until your parents pass away. Then what. So what if you starve, or become a street person. What good is that? Boycott by one person doesn't make a change. Boycott of a lot of people isn't all that effective either. Just look at the way the unions have so much less power since overpopulation is a factor. If you don't work then someone else will do it. If you don't survive, then the rich don't care. That is really what they want anyway.
I agree that the system stinks but we need a better plan than you have put forward so far to change it. That is all I am saying. I don't see the purpose in your strategy. I don't see that it has a useful outcome in making a change. If the cow is dead you might as well eat it, if you are hungry. The cow is dead. Until we stop the work of the slaughter house, there will be nothing but more dead cows. One person starving to keep from eating dead cows isn't the answer and is largely irrelivent to the slaughter house.
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Post by deinemutter on Feb 15, 2006 18:14:36 GMT -5
Ok...I can see where your coming from Fire, but I honestly have one qeustion: Why did you wait THIS long to move out? I can understand fincially and blah blah blah, but I would have moved out ASAP. As soon as I go to collage, I am OUT of my parents house. All I'm seeing is you parents are annoying you, and you didnt' do anything. But you did. Good for you. =)
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Post by stonerwolf on Feb 15, 2006 19:09:35 GMT -5
im working on finding like minded people to help me out here, to get something done, possibly an actual revolution even, but too few seem interested in sacrificing their own well being to work toward helping everyone else as a whole.
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Post by KG on Feb 16, 2006 0:40:20 GMT -5
Overall I approve, but I can't figure out how you can do anything much without capital, or possessions, especially if you won't even take contributions in cash. How can you start a revolution without money? Overall I have always seen my lack of money as my biggest problem. It is hard to imagine turning it down.
I think there needs to be a very detailed plan of what you want to accomplish and how you plan to do it. Maybe you should start your own website promoting this?
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Post by stonerwolf on Feb 16, 2006 0:54:24 GMT -5
it'd require massive amounts of people to act in unision. spontaniousely drop everything and seperate from government all at once, via abandoning use of currency. keeping everything open, all jobs remain, all people keep working, but without using money; farm for food, open restraunts to feed people, not to get a paycheck.
unfortunately, this means everything is free, and everyone is built up to greed, and cant have a classless society.
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