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Post by KG on Jan 17, 2012 17:06:09 GMT -5
Thanks Xav. Blessed are the peacemakers. We all love Del and it upsets us all more than a little that this happens. It's only natural, knowing our natures that Kata wants to hug her and comfort her and I want to get her to buy an AK-47 and take a million martial arts classes before tomorrow... as unrealistic as that is. Sorry for being so pushy. I just see this kind of thing as an ongoing problem for most women.
I perfectly understand Kata. I get your point of comforting Del, its just that... well the only reason my point matters at all is that, at least for me, it was not a one time issue. I know other women that had even worse difficulties even more often. It is something woman have to stay prepared for.
Personally I am very glad this was not a black and white issue, since that would make it worse I guess... and it seldom is. I'm glad she wasn't hurt.
Anyway thanks to all, and I am sorry for shoving self protection down everyone's throat. I suppose I did over react.
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Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jan 17, 2012 19:47:35 GMT -5
I did not see this until today. I think you will find strength to finish healing and find that it is their faults they place on you. That is what they use as a defense. You, however, and I do not mean to sound harsh, did keep it going because you blamed yourself for their actions. If you would have stood your ground with the first incident, you would have come out stronger and the second incident would not have happened. Again, I am sorry if I sound hard on this. It is not my intention, it is just my opinion based a little in experience. I've never been raped, but I have backed down when I shouldn't have and it cost me. I am, however, confident that you, in seeing that it was not your fault on the first count, and only a small bit on you the second time, you will heal and learn. You first assume she knew it would have happened, Shadow. No where did she say this, or imply this. She gave him a second chance, and he betrayed that strongly. Don't blame victims for what happens to them. When a person attacks, harms, or otherwise offends them, it serves no purpose to say "they deserved it" or place fault in some way. In Del's case, he made the choices to do what he did. Don't blame her for it. That's disrespectful, and quite judgmental. I never said that she deserved what happened the second time. I am just saying that because she showed weakness the first time in not reporting it as soon as it happened lead to the second incident. I don't blame the victim unless it truly is their fault. I was simply saying that the second incident should not have occurred at all and that measures could have been taken to prevent it. Also, I never make assumptions in what people know or do not know will happen. In fact, I rarely assume anything unless evidence is presented that leads to said assumption, which then becomes more a prediction, estimate, or theory. Rarely is there evidence in situations like this, to assume it is going to happen. I am not a heartless person, I just look at facts and go with instinct tempered by said facts. I also do not give many second chances though. I do not let second occurrences of things I don't want to happen to me happen unless I cannot prevent such things.
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Post by Xavrael on Jan 17, 2012 22:59:53 GMT -5
Tee hee! There is... quite a bit of difference between looking at facts and stating facts and looking at what is being said and making judgements. If there are any actual truths out there to be had, one very simple and easily verifiable one is that people in general when placed in an environment that produces fear hardly if ever react the way they *think* they will unless they are trained for that situation. And Unless I missed it, I highly doubt anyone here has taken anti-rape classes. I'm curious to know what you would have done if you were truly fearful of being hurt or possibly killed by someone larger and more morally ambiguous than yourself. In a position where you could not defend yourself if you needed to and then faced with the idea that if you told someone, you could possibly be blamed for.... being a whore. After all if you got raped, OOOOBVIOUSLY you had to have been doing *something* that gave the idea that it was ok. Riiiiiiiiiight? Wrong, but mob mentality is a bitch ^.- And more interestingly you say you don't blame the victim and yet whether you intended to or not, you do so by saying she was weak. That is unless of course you were saying that her weakness to report what happened is an inherent strength, hmm? =]. To compound that further you say that you never make assumptions in what people know or do not know what happen. If that's the case... then why say anything at all? After all, if you're not making assumptions, what place do you have to say what she should or should not have done? Are you a rapist? or a victim of rape? Have you ever been the unwilling syrup to someone's rape waffle? This is fun isn't it? Let me be clear on this point if only this point alone - The only valid response to her post at this point in time is one that is unequivocally one of support, patience, and lacking in any judgements of could haves/would haves and whatnot. She is Del. Not Ranthe. Not Xavilicus The Mad. Not anyone else. And her way was to say no. The most important point that can be made is that saying, "NO" should have been enough, but it wasn't as he still tried to indulge his particular brand of malicious sexual deviance. This point cannot be argued. That makes her a victim and victims must be supported so that they can heal. THEN they can move forward and find preventative methods to keep it from happening again! Not because It's their fault but because there's more to fear than demons in this world. Mankind is scary enough. Hehe, I don't know about being a peacemaker, i'm partial to mischief myself Don't thank me. You all are very close and I would hate to see that crumble over something so... =]
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Post by KG on Jan 18, 2012 13:45:38 GMT -5
HI Xav and Lan, I think that again we are looking at two different motives here, prevention and comforting, and it seems we should just settle on comforting Del, and speaking about rape in generalities not specifically about the incident. No one can go back in time and change a single detail about what happened, so why pick over it. It happened, and most of us are saying we should move on to prevention, but perhaps it isn't a good idea to use the example Del provided. I admit that Del's case presents some muddy water in places, but that is how date rape is. It isn't some guy grabbing a woman out of the clear blue and having his way with her like a cave man. Our society is more complex.
When looking at prevention, in general Lan is right, nipping things in the bud is the best way to prevent them, and tolerating things we don't like just to keep from offending is the core of date rape. There are reasons though, why women and other polite people don't do that in so many situations. Really I think this whole Politically Correct nonsense has only made rape more likely because, to me Politically Correct is like polite on crack. I think, and this is just me that the entire concept of being polite has been used by people who are up to no good and want to get away with it. That said, being polite is good sometimes, but we should all be prepared to get rude at a moment's notice.
So here is my next move on this thread. I am going to stop the concept of blaming the victim and start majorly blaming society! It's society's fault because of the screwy way people interact with each other. The ways we are taught from childhood to behave are simply dangerous and should be abandoned, or at least feeling required to act that way.
Funny you should mention anti-rape classes because yes I have attended an anti-rape martial arts class. I brought my daughters. Then we signed up for additional classes of a more general self defense nature. They covered all kinds of assault on females. It was very nice of this teacher to gather volunteers and give instruction to local women on how to defend themselves. If something like this is offered in your area, you should all go, whether male or female and either participate or watch. Still these classes were focused on an outright physical attack and fighting.
Most psychology teachers will also include a short section on the psychology of rape as well. At least they did when I was in school. I don't know if they still do that or not. Also maybe they have changed their minds on some of the theory they have on the topic... most every theory in subjects like psychology, medicine, baby care... etc. change every four or five years, with little clue that the new theory is better than the old. It changes back to the old theory frequently.
As for reporting the incident... only if you want a real exercise in futility and to be made to feel like crap about what happened. In most cases of actual rape, the victim has to testify in court a full year after the incident and again a year after that if they appeal. You could however take out a restraining order. The problem with reporting it is that you will be questioned extensively, and you'd have to have a very iron clad case of actual rape not to be totally ignored. Then even in the case of rape only one in sixteen rapists actually go to jail. The rest are free to show up on their victim's doorstep the day after the trial... so NO reporting and prosecuting rape even in the case of actual rape doesn't make sense for the victim. Vigilanty justice is the only hope of justice you'll ever see from rape and chances are you'd get more time if caught than they'd get... unless you raped them back... LOL then no one would do a damn thing.
Speaking in general about rape and not about Del's case, most of the date rape stories are very hard to present. They are rarely clear cut and they involve a "proverbial camel" type approach that men use to get close to women, and by the time the woman realizes the camel is in the tent already, she's already compromised herself, and lost control of the situation.
I think in order to understand this we have to realize that it is all about conditioning. Women are conditioned from childhood without even realizing it, to compliantly tolerate sexual aggression. Mom's always force their daughters to be polite, and nice to people they want to impress, no matter how the child feels. They do this to all their children, but daughters even more than their sons. Aunt Sally is allowed to plant a big slobbery kiss on all the kids, and while the kids want to run screaming noooo... they can't because it wouldn't be polite. If the boy says yuck... well it can be laughed off, but if the girl acts repulsed it is simply not tolerated.
By the time a girl is 15 she has learned not to cause a scene, not to raise her voice especially in public, and not to curse or show anger. She is taught to be ashamed and embarrassed if she accidentally speaks loudly enough for other people in the room to turn and look at her. We've all been in a restaurant or bar and heard a man with a thunderous voice three booths down, explaining something to a friend. It's accepted in men, but women are taught not to do this.
We have all seen the move where the couple are sitting together and the guy tries to get his arm around the woman without her noticing. It's joked about on TV constantly, but really this is the entire principle of the strategy that when taken further and further leads to date rape. Everything that happens is just one little action that by itself means little, and each tiny step brings more and more intimate situations. The process depends on two sets of learned behaviors in the woman.
One is that she will feel compelled to be polite. If I have learned one thing about life in general, there is a time to be polite and a time to stop being polite. Yet women are taught from early childhood not to offend, much more than men are. They will sit quietly without even thinking about it when they should be saying... when it would be perfectly natural to be saying "WTF are you doing? Get the F off me you freak!" Yet little girls are are trained to be polite... and not to say F**k, SOB, MF and all those other words I am choosing to abbreviate. When you are threatened it's a good idea to pull those angry phrases out and become something they didn't expect.
Women are also taught not to move abruptly. How many times have you seen a guy just jump up and walk out... all the time right! But women do this much less frequently and feel a necessity to explain where they are going. Women tend to feel self conscious about movement, and this is enforced heavily in fundamentalist societies like the Muslim society, but also to a lesser extent in the west. Again our mothers prized sitting still, and while boys have trouble conforming to this, girls take to it easily, and so they learn that even just moving is a disruption, and we don't want to cause a disruption... still in these situations disruption is exactly what you want. Most of their sneaky date rape behaviors would be totally foiled if we moved about freely and got up to go to the bathroom or prowl around the room like they do when THEY get bored or don't like what is going on.
One thing I learned to do when things get intense is go to the bathroom. It gives you a chance to clear your head... you don't actually have to USE the bathroom, or even go in there, just leave the room, and break the contact. When you get back sit on the other side of the room.
Gaining control of the conversation also gives you power. Sit forward in your chair and speak. Posture yourself with body language that says, I am in control Motherf**er... even if you aren't saying anything that verbally confrontational. He'll get the message that you are not to be triffeled with.
Also avoid victim speak. When with a man, never talk about how you "feel" about this or that, unless it is a situation of absolute trust. Actually it is OK to talk about anger, and frustration or joy and peace, but avoid those conflicted, confused and sad depressing emotions. Sure it is great to be comforted by a guy, but guys use that shit. Never speak of situations where you felt victimized. Always tell stories about being in control, and making your own choices.
Another thing is to get loud and stop being so ladylike. Even if you choose not to make a scene about what is going on, just getting animated and telling a story that makes you angry or makes you feel empowered will do wonders for that atmosphere of encroachment.
Imagine that you are a diplomat trying to avoid encroachment from another country. You should explain that your army is strong and actively engaged in border control, not weak and accustomed to being overrun.
Embody empowerment... it may not make you popular with all the boys, but the boys you turn off are exactly the ones you want to run off. Walk tall, stand straight and look down your nose. Wear heals and stand well planted with your feet apart by about a foot or more. Avoid girlish poses when you feel vernerable. most of those poses are submissive poses. Walk like Lucy Lawless, not some porn chick, and especially avoid the postures of oppressed women. Don't duck your head, don't bow your back, or take on what my mom always called "lady like" posture or behavior. It is all meant to make a woman seem small and subservient. Be Clint Eastwood. If you can't picture Eastwood sitting that way, then don't sit that way when you feel threatened.
Actually Clint Eastwood got me through a lot of circumstances. Mimic Clint when you feel weak. His spirit will strengthen you, and empower you. Just standing, sitting and moving like Clint Eastwood makes you feel stronger, and sends a message to those around you that you are in total control.
Well that is my take on why we get raped and how to avoid it. It works for men too I am sure. The bottom line is don't be intimidated... Practice saying "F**k you, motherf**er" in the mirror, and don't stop till you create something utterly terrifying in your posture and facial expression. Practice your "go to hell look" I used to love doing that. Anyhow... not a critique of others, nor saying that everyone has to follow my style... just an explanation of how this happens and a few strategies to avoid it.
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Post by Del In Thailand on Jan 18, 2012 23:55:08 GMT -5
I did not see this until today. I think you will find strength to finish healing and find that it is their faults they place on you. That is what they use as a defense. You, however, and I do not mean to sound harsh, did keep it going because you blamed yourself for their actions. If you would have stood your ground with the first incident, you would have come out stronger and the second incident would not have happened. Again, I am sorry if I sound hard on this. It is not my intention, it is just my opinion based a little in experience. I've never been raped, but I have backed down when I shouldn't have and it cost me. I am, however, confident that you, in seeing that it was not your fault on the first count, and only a small bit on you the second time, you will heal and learn. Only a small bit on the second time, hm? Then perhaps I should have let him go all the way sinc it was in part my fault a small bit. So I should never trust another guy that decides to give a friendly hug, cause once he does, he's capable of forcing himself on me. Or if he pats my shoulder to show support I should not be his friend anymore because the next time around could be worse. Or how about family mmembers? That too, righ? I should shun them if they give me a hug, cause they're just as capable. I think you're missing the point. Damn me for saying this, but you really can only speak in theory until it happens to you. Cause I used to say the same exact thing you have just said to friends in high school and college. And look what happened. And don't apologive for not intending to sound harsh. Part of you wanted to, and part of you didnt. The part of you that wanted to, won out ont his one and said it. It's like the abusive person in a relationship "I didn't mean to hurt you". The truth is, part of you did mean to. So don't apologize for it. It makes me sick.
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Post by Xavrael on Jan 19, 2012 0:15:14 GMT -5
Please try to take the positive from all of this, Del. While the methods may...... vary, in the end the intent is to help. Regardless of how it's being said, the one thing you should take from any of this, is that it's not your fault that subhuman individual touched you in such a way that you deemed inappropriate.
He wanted to do it, not you. His choice, your pain. His fault, not yours. Do get better soon. I wish you well.
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Post by Del in Thailand on Jan 19, 2012 0:28:28 GMT -5
Thanks Xav. Blessed are the peacemakers. We all love Del and it upsets us all more than a little that this happens. It's only natural, knowing our natures that Kata wants to hug her and comfort her and I want to get her to buy an AK-47 and take a million martial arts classes before tomorrow... as unrealistic as that is. Sorry for being so pushy. I just see this kind of thing as an ongoing problem for most women. I perfectly understand Kata. I get your point of comforting Del, its just that... well the only reason my point matters at all is that, at least for me, it was not a one time issue. I know other women that had even worse difficulties even more often. It is something woman have to stay prepared for. Personally I am very glad this was not a black and white issue, since that would make it worse I guess... and it seldom is. I'm glad she wasn't hurt. Anyway thanks to all, and I am sorry for shoving self protection down everyone's throat. I suppose I did over react. I was hurt Kim. I was betrayed by someone I trusted. Should I have gone to him after two years of not speaking to him? I honestly don't know. It's like saying I should have done this or that while everything happened. I don't want to be cuddle or have comforting words spoken to me to make me feel good. I also don't want to hear peple say 'Oh you shouldn't have or should have' cause I'm going to turn and say "Well why don't you say to HIM he shouldn't have?" cause it works both ways. Relationships are a two way street. Everyone ignores their intuition to an extent so that's a moot point. I put false hopes in that two years would have changed a valuable friend. And he didn't change. Why I reacted the way I did? Because I was afraid of him doing more damage than he already inflicted. I froze BECAUSE HE SAID I MOVED A CETAIN WAY WHICH INDICATED TO HIM HE SHOULD GO FURTHER. So, MY INTERPRETATION OF THAT WAS DON"T MOVE SO HE DOESN'T ASSUME ANYTHING. And you know what? It worked. I didn't move an inch and he took that as disinterest. People are funny creatures. What you may assume will work with one person, is not necessarily how it will work with other people. We are as diverse as the color spectrum. So for this psycho, one thing meant yes and another meant no, while for me it was the exact opposite. "She allowed him to undress her"...I asked what he was doing, and he gave a half-ass answer. I told him I wanted a back massage, and he didn't answer me. Is this where I should have gotten up and stormed out? What if he pushed me back down and forced himself into me? That's when things got really scary. the best thing I could have done, was not go to his place to begin with. Or better yet, the best thing would have been for him to not exist. That would have solved this instance... Him never being born. Problem solved. Past traumas - I remember a Junior HS boyfriend that had a habit of hitting his girlfiends. I didn't find out until he felt the need to push me. The first time it happened, I ran to mommmy and told her. She asked if I wanted to be treated like that [gave me the whole spiel] and the next day I broke up with him. What did he do? Begged for me to go back. I didn't. Being touched by little boys at school...what did I do? I went and told my mother and teachers. What happened? The parents blamed me for encouraging their boys to grab me. Really? I mean blame me for just sitting in my seat and not doing anything to provoke your son to touch my butt. Then thre's the shop keeper with the bellydance items. I didn't ask him to touch me - I asked him, showing him a top that wasn't on my body so he wouldn't touch me [or so I assumed], how it was supposed to be worn. And what did he do? He went and touched anyway. Theorists are just that: they speak in theory. Here's what I think it's all about - a want that they can't have. He's fascinated [whomever it may be] by what's before him, and a desire stires deep within. But he doesn't fully understand what it is that's stirring within and doesn't take the time to understand it. He acts on an impulse and without fully understanding what he's acting on, his acts turn into a one-sided exploration. Boundaries, it's something I know I need to work harder on. No matter who it is, the people I come across, they feel the need to touch me - hold my hand, wrap their arm around me, place a hand on my shoulder, give me a hug mroe than once. They have a need to be close. They mistake my looking at their eyes as an invitation! That's not my intent. But alas, that's how most people interpret it. It's not about what the woman should have done or shouldn't have done. Let's look at the core truth of it. It's about what she possess that he desires to know and understand, yet doesn't fully understand. It's turned into something so perverse these days, it sickens me. We can sit here and argue about the what if's should haves and all, and miss the core essence and point of this issue, or we can bypass the blame game and look at the core point of it all. I've had almost every man say to me [except the shop keeper] that 'there's something about you that's very different. I don't know what it is, bt I feel very drawn to it, like i have to be near it." Even in JHS, the boys would say I'm very different from the other girls. So I have to conclude that there's something about women that's very comforting yet intense, that it draws many near, and they have a need to be in it...in that 'Amrita' of a woman. Unfortunately, it plays out as women being ignorant of it and men taking advantage of this ignorance, unbeknownst to them [for the most part]. I came to Thailand to heal and to discover what it is about myself that attarcts so many, and how I can temper it, gain control over MYSELF. There's a way to dispell trouble...I'm just trying to figure out to utilize it. One doens't know the extent of their power until it's taken fromt hem, used against them, or exploited. The blessing in that is, they have a second chance at learning about it. Be it rape, slavery, or anyhting else that is the nature of exploitation... Make sense?
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Post by Del from Thailand on Jan 19, 2012 0:37:20 GMT -5
You first assume she knew it would have happened, Shadow. No where did she say this, or imply this. She gave him a second chance, and he betrayed that strongly. Don't blame victims for what happens to them. When a person attacks, harms, or otherwise offends them, it serves no purpose to say "they deserved it" or place fault in some way. In Del's case, he made the choices to do what he did. Don't blame her for it. That's disrespectful, and quite judgmental. I never said that she deserved what happened the second time. I am just saying that because she showed weakness the first time in not reporting it as soon as it happened lead to the second incident. I don't blame the victim unless it truly is their fault. I was simply saying that the second incident should not have occurred at all and that measures could have been taken to prevent it. Also, I never make assumptions in what people know or do not know will happen. In fact, I rarely assume anything unless evidence is presented that leads to said assumption, which then becomes more a prediction, estimate, or theory. Rarely is there evidence in situations like this, to assume it is going to happen. I am not a heartless person, I just look at facts and go with instinct tempered by said facts. I also do not give many second chances though. I do not let second occurrences of things I don't want to happen to me happen unless I cannot prevent such things. I'm sure I'm not the only woman he's done this to that didn't have the guts in themt o report it. A counselor did say to me that a detective would look at the report and rip me a new one. It would be my word against his. And if the officer is a pigh head like most of them, that would be two humiliating blows in addition to the humiliation of the incident alone. You look at the facts? Make sure you look at the toatlity of the facts. How many others has this happened to? You'd need to understand his thinking, his past actions, his history, in order for your facts to be sound and just. They're not facts, they're subjective inferences. In the end, there was no consent. No matter how you wish to look at it. I don't give many second chances either. I burn bridges where they need to be burned. Same here. And it's quite simple - I say, "No, there's no need for that to happen so it will not." I've never been coersed into unwanted sexual acts before. This was a first. I never knew wha desparation was until this event happened. This was a first. Will it happen again? Hell No. Ran, there's a first time for everything. Let it be a lessoned learned for me, for it is.
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Post by KG on Jan 19, 2012 4:16:38 GMT -5
Hi Del,
I am sorry that I hurt your feelings. It was not my intention at all. I am just very concerned for your safety. I want you to be safe and I probably have a worse image of Bangkok and surrounding area than it merits... I would hope that no place on earth could be as bad as what I have gleaned from my research on sex trafficking. Its just that knowing you are there, and then they are turning you down for jobs cause you are black... and around the same time I read this that happened in familiar surroundings. I just want to feel like you have at least a fighting chance.
I am just so worried that next time something happens you could be hurt... and by hurt I mean killed...I hate to think of that so I resort to the euphemism hurt.
I understand that what happened would make you feel hurt emotionally... and angry. I remember when one of my married college friends hit on me cause his wife was pregnant. I was very angry and hurt. He was in a position to give me a job too, a good job. He called me in for an interview, and he used that job for leverage to sleep with him. I pointed to the picture of his wife on his desk, shamed him verbally for about half an hour. I told him I was very disappointed in him and left. I never spoke to him again.
I understand and what you have done makes no difference to me. I am only concerned with encouraging you to build a better defense for next time, with the next guy. Lets face it, you are young, beautiful and amazing. Guys are going to be trying to get in your pants for the rest of your life. As old and ugly as I have become at age 51 I still get hit on. Guys still try to get close to me and won't go away. Until my place of work burned down about a year ago, they would come there and flirt, ask me out and not leave and since I was working I couldn't leave... so you have a long haul of this, not just one incident.
OH I wish I could talk to him, but he is in California. I guess you could give me his e-mail address. I could have some fun threatening to beat him to death or something... I could build a dummy e-mail address, convince him I am some mafia guy or something... it would be delicious fun to torment him... you want me to do that? Seriously, I could really screw with him... especially if I got into his social media sites and found out more about his business... I could. I make a hell of an enemy.
Yes we all ignore our intuition occasionally. I have, and every time I have, I have paid dearly... and occasionally I listened and still things worked out kind of badly. I can only assume they would have been worse if I hadn't??? I don't know but I do listen to my intuition now because I have learned that while things may suck either way, they suck worse when I don't listen.
I see flaws in that logic, but past is past and while we can guess what would have happened this way or that way, but in the end we can not go back and the past cannot be changed. It's done with, and best forgotten, but things went too far and we can both agree to that. by the time you hitched your butt he'd already been out of line.
In general though you have a right to move! You have a right to speak up and you have every right to cuss this SOB out for all you are worth. You have a right to hop up, pull your pants up and give him a swift roundhouse kick for touching your butt. HE does not have the right or the ability to control or repress your actions your words or your thoughts.
Yes and what works for me, may not work for you. We don't look alike or have the same energy... plus in fairness, Gary tends to take over sometimes in those situations. Not completely but he helps if I need it. Maybe you could try channeling some ferocious astral creature for these times, but at any rate... not sure you could pull off what I would have done, but if you did, he'd have been so shocked he would have peed his pants, because it would have been so out of character. That's what I used. Shock! I was polite most of the time so when I turned into a vicious, rabid hell cat, it scared people.
Frankly most guys I've been around... well the way you explained it sounded exactly like what I would have thought would happen. He's just like any redneck bar fly. He's going to do exactly as much as you let him. He might feel guilty and stop if he realizes he's traumatizing the f*ck out of you, but then again he may not. He showed a little mercy but that doesn't mean he's a good guy, or that your strategy 'worked.' If it worked you'd have not ever been undressed.
Now there is where you and I are soooo different. Assuming I did not want this to happen, which is a big assumption for me, when I was in my prime, but assuming I had no intention of having sex, I would have stood up when he started sliding my pants off. That was the absolute best time to have stopped this stuff. I'd have bolted off the table, perhaps kicking and thrashing around. Now of course if I was getting up from a lying down position now at age 51, there'd be a lot more kicking and thrashing by necessity. LOL Of course I am sure with your dancer's body you could have gotten up gracefully and quickly. Still a well placed, plausibly accidental kick in the groin might have been fun.
I said I wasn't going to get into critiquing what you did and I am not wanting to, but for educational purposes. I am not blaming you cause most girls don't know what to do about this stuff, and believe me, I learned the hard way the easiest way to deal with this shit. I'll just tell you what I would have done, and I have had enough similar stuff happen, that this is not conjecture. I been there, done that and bought a whole rack full of shirts. I see quite a few paths of possible actions here, and so why not... I am not saying you should act like the old me. You have to find your own style, and mine is fairly common and trashy, but it works for me... may or may not work for you.
Anyway I'd have gotten up and asked him in a very harsh loud voice, "What in the hell do you think you are doing Motherf*cker!" Son of a B.***!!! You think you can take my f***ing pants off... just like that? You dumb ass co*k sucker." I decide when my pants come off, and they stay on till I f*cking say so... and don't be touching my a** no body touches my ass less I LET them touch my ass, and you ain't touching my ass!"
Now i know that is extreme but that's how I used to deal with stuff... now if I didn't want to totally piss him off, or like if I thought I wanted to do him later at another time, or like since he had my computer I may have just said, "What did you hit back there?!! Now I gotta pee. Then I'd have regained my footing and all my clothing and went to the bath room. When I came back I'd have been fully dressed and not laid down again. Probably would not have sat either, and grabbed my computer and left.
Alternatively if I was determined to get my computer fixed, the whole thing would have gone conversational. I'd have perched on some furniture that allowed me a view looking down at him if he sat. I'd have conversed about things, but if he started with the giving in return, I'd have offered to draw him a picture or knit him a sweater or something. I'd say that sex is not a means of payment and I am not a prostitute. If you want that, I suggest you call a pimp and ask him if any whores need their computers fixed.
But that's just me, and I was far from perfect either... I was fairly flippant, and it would have depended on how I felt about him. I mean I might would have just let him... if I thought I might like it, but if I didn't want him... or if I'd been thinking about it, and then he ticked me off with the butt thing... I always hated for anyone to touch my butt... then it would have stopped right there, no matter what. It's easier to stop stuff early in activities with guys than to stop it in the middle. IMO either you have advanced physical contact followed by sex or you stick to light kissing and hugs. Back rub might fit in there somewhere, but touch the butt and all bets are off. There is no between measure that's going to work... at least not for long. OH some guys are more stoppable than others, but most men aren't going to stop easily once below the belt touching starts or you become naked.
I quite agree.
Only you know what kind of things messed with you worse than others, but this one seems fairly bland, the way you describe it. I don't hear passion in your words so I'll assume this is at most a minor contributor to your anxt... you went to your mom? That might mean something, but overall it's a great testament to your mom and your relationship with her that you told her right away.
Ah HA! This is it... unless there is something worse adding to it, but we have a HUGE piece of the puzzle right here. They shamed you for being beautiful and attracting their boys. That's also why you are concerned about blame now. I notice your phrasing too, very telling... "not doing anything to provoke" OK so you feel that if you don't DO anything... so you shouldn't "DO anything" oh dear!
BTW being hurt and not doing anything about it, just makes you feel worse, and it doesn't change the outcome. It is inaction, so it really has little or no effect on the situation. You ARE pretty and that attracts. You don't do anything so there is no result of doing nothing, except that things take their natural course. Natural processes speed towards their natural outcome without intervention. For example: If my roof leaks and I replace it, it stops leaking, but if I do nothing, the natural course of rot happens and I loose my house. The rain does not take pity on me, nor neglect to rain because when it does I try to ignore it. The rain does not change, only the roof will prevent the rain from coming in. You have to fix your roof... your boundaries.
Like I mentioned above, you are like a diplomat for a country trying not to be invaded by a country you suspect is more powerful. You make your military sound strong, and you speak of efficient border patrols, and allude to top secret military advancements in your country. You do not display your nation's frailties. It's like the cold war. Russia was bluffing and so were we, but because each nation believed that the other was strong, no one attacked anyone.
Yes, but people don't ever give us what we ask for, they give us what they want to give us, and they take from us what they can get away with taking. I mean he was asking for a throat punch, but you didn't give him one.
yeah you are right, and it is what they do. Men who are borderline spiritually aware are even more drawn to us... but you look good enough even if they are spiritually blind. Mostly those guys just want in our pants. LOL But they need to learn as Mick Jagger says, "you can't always get what you want!"
Don't you ever stop looking people in the eye now! That simply won't do, nor should you close yourself off from touch. It isn't about that. Just allow your eyes and your touch to reflect the negative as effectively as the positive. When you are angry, fire should leap from those eyes and attack the ground between you and him, it should burn into his skull when he meets your gaze. He's the one who should have been forced to look away. You are powerful, and you are being punked down by this insignificant piece of crap. Physical strength isn't everything. Use your power by getting truly angry and showing it. Let the rage come out when you are threatened. You think it is your fault... no matter what anyone else says. You think it is your fault for existing, not for doing... but no it isn't. You have a right to demand respect and the best way is to command respect. Own it like you own a dance stage. Act! Don't look away, stare at him in a way that makes him look away.
That's all fine except you gotta right to live unmolested in that body, and to do that you have to be able to protect it. If I had a three pound diamond for a heart, and everyone was out to steal it, I'd have to defend it with my life because it is MY LIFE. It ain't about what you should have done. It is about what you are going to have to do for the rest of your natural born days in order to survive.
Very true, but there is also something in the unknown darkness of the female that frightens a man. It can send him running in terror if you learn to use it. WE do have a dark side, all of us, even women... I am Mercy and so Vengeance is the terrifying specter of my shadow. You are roughly translated as Prudence or possibly temperance, so perhaps men would be terrified of your reckless abandon? I don't know, but you must learn to use the darker angrier side of yourself to warn people of your wrath.
Exactly and the key is that a powerful magnet can repel as powerfully as it attracts. You just have to learn to reverse your polarity at will. Start with the fact that you are no body's pet rabbit. You are a powerful predatory creature if you wish to be.
Exactly! It's all in the learning! Problems come when we cannot learn from the past since that is the only purpose the past serves.
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