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Post by Kata Samoes on Jun 5, 2010 0:00:37 GMT -5
Lecture? I lecture everyone. I lecture Kim. I lecture Del. I lectured everyone that has EVER posted on this board for any extended amount of time. Why?
Because I give a F**k.
I don't talk down to you, but I will be straight with you. If that's offensive, I will not apologize. Maybe I need to piss you off to get you to listen to me.
I only blame you for your inaction, and your pity. Does that mean this situation, how you feel/fight/eat/breathe/run/scream is on you? I don't think so. Not entirely. Do I blame you for nearly everything? No.
Should I?
We are friends. Friends can be assholes, telling you what you do not want to hear but need to. Friends give tough love, and soft love. Friends listen, and slap you back into reality. Friends give a shit.
If I didn't, I never would have bothered with your sorry ass. Kim can attest to that.
I can't be a parent to you. I cannot tell you what to do, but only what you need to. Open your eyes. Breathe in the air. Live your life, for gods' sake. I'll be here to slap you back into reality, when you need it.
Because I give a shit about you. I don't know how or why, but I do. Now you can't lose me.
Get over it.
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Post by stonerwolf on Jun 5, 2010 17:09:11 GMT -5
sometimes i take friendship(s) for granted and lose sight of things taht really matter, and really do need a slap back to reality. I, much more frequently than others, that I am aware. Which seems to only add to the fact of the matter.
It doesnt help that i feel more like a burden than a friend, and it has never helpped that i have generally had to do everything to move forward, alone and without assistance or encouragement beyond text. the text is as though a barrier, blocking out the genuine compassion and intent, through excessive symbolism and encryption.
What we are left with are not humans or emotions, not actions or advice, but strings of text and words and letters and symbols. having only the self left to interpret these things, without any real conveyance of intent or compassion, jsut letters.
We can try to manipulate the language to place emphasis on how we feel about a situation and what we are intending to communicate to one another, but without that spirit of humanity, that face to face BEING of friends, that ability for you to reach out and smack the F**k out of my head for saying something stupid and self destructive....
Without the community, the individual is inherently deprived and thereby deprives others of their own self.
I shouldnt feel sorry for being in this funk, that only contributes to the problem. what can be done to "fix" the problem is only laden with tremendous amounts of self pity and regret.
Be a slave to the system to "fix" your life? trade one pain for another of equal damage? that isnt any form of improvement, just movement through stagnation.
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Post by Kata Samoes on Jun 5, 2010 18:21:36 GMT -5
Slave to the system? You enslave yourself when you dwell in how you cannot get out. I don't push for conformity for sake of conformity, only necessity. You don't enslave yourself, you work within the confines (and sometimes outside) of the society you're in to get to a better.
Damned if that's stagnation. Stagnation because you don't like what you have to do? F**k that. Get yourself in a better place, then aim higher. You get support as you go, little or as much as it may or may not mean to you.
Society may be pushing at you. Push back!
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Post by KG on Jun 5, 2010 19:16:31 GMT -5
Stoner, I usually just ignore your insults. I know you don't mean them. I know you are frustrated with things. We really do want to help but it is frustrating for us as well as you. Kata is right. You are far more enslaved by your self made restrictions than anyone is by society. Also you hold your values alone. No one agrees with all of them. Many of them conflict and come from a wide variety of sources. You have a collection of rules that conflict and that is your main problem. Some of them do not fit together and start to conflict with each other. For example free will is something you claim to espouce, and yet you are very restrictive and legalistic in following your rules. For another you won't own a car, but you need one for transportation, and resent people not driving you where you want to go. If cars are wrong to drive and own, then they are equally wrong to ride in... but the thing is that cars are just necessary. If you had enough money you could buy an electric car that doesn't polute, but you don't approve of money, but you NEED the things only money can buy. You use money every time you use or own anything. Yet you are dependent on others to purchase them for you... because working for a check is wrong... it's a circle... and a small confining circle you have put yourself in, and you can't get out of it without breaking a rule.... but you can't stay in it without breaking a rule either. Basically anything other than living in the woods, off fruit like a hunter gatherer is breaking the rules... and no modern human body is cut out for that. You would likely die. IDK... it's just impossible, like many childhood notions and dreams all kids have. Sooo we all have to give those things up, or at least adapt them to a working system, get behind our system, and make it work.
I can't really FEEL your values. It's something I can't relate to. Not that I haven't heard you. I have. I have listened and read, and there is nothing wrong with my comprehension. Only that some of my own values are totally opposite of yours. I still respect that you have them... I think that's cool... but eventually you have to see that rules are a trap. Whether it's liberal rules or conservative rules, or selfish rules, or giving rules... sometimes you just have to break some rules to make it work. I don't mean indescriminately... but with purpose, and forethought to push the outcome you want... and also just to accomplish something.
What makes it worse is that your rules conflict. You speak of being a slave to the system... and yet... you want to be interdependent... and you want anarchy, but you want to enforce your values on the rest of the world... and you think everyone should share their wealth but there would be no wealth to share if we all followed your values... Do you have wealth? No! Do you create goods or services? No! You do not approve of cars, or any gas consuming vehicles... so there would be no transportation if you were in charge... therefore asking someone else for transportation, defies your rules just as much as getting a job, buying a car and driving to California does. it's a circle.
I really feel that you can't progress cause you are caught in a thought loop, which has no answer... like the if a tree falls in the forest question... initially it is thought provoking, but you've been in this loop for ten years. I admire you for having your own system of values. I think that is cool, BUT your system is too complex, and too restrictive. It won't work... it contradicts itself, and without some loopholes you are totally paralized and stuck... there's no way these things work together well.
Your desires conflict with your rules, your basic needs conflict with your rules, your survival basically conflicts with your rules. I think something has to give, in order for you to survive.
I think you need to put all your ideas on paper in outline form, and see for your self how they conflict, and are over all impossible when you take the together, and all litterally.
Ironically this guy on TV just said something... he survived being stranded in the snow for over a week. He said, "Survival is more about the mind than the body, and that the will to live and motivation were the most important things."
I think that is the main problem you have. MOTIVATION and actually wanting to LIVE! You have spent a lot of time outlining what you can't and will not do, and how you don't want this and that, but what DO you want? What positive action do you want to take. Life should not be about negatives. Not what you can't do but what you can do, and what you should do, and what you would want to do. What do you want to do? You can't change the world to suit you, but with a plan you could structure YOUR world more to your liking.
I know people in wheelchairs who get more done than either one of us, and are happier than either one of us... so please... you are only limited by your mindset. You can do this.
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Post by stonerwolf on Jun 9, 2010 13:17:55 GMT -5
my self made restrictions are more important than the luxuries that society can give me.
You SIMPLY DONT UNDERSTAND that without my moral base, i could just go and kill and eat everyone for sustenance. nothing is literally stopping me from that BUT my moral ground.
I cant live like you do becaus you live WRONG. you live in a way that takes everything for granted and expects more than you are physically or mentally able to earn. You rely on the kindness of others, which is not a proble, but when you are so expectant of it, that you cannot live without money, you are only damaging yourself.
You people ARE DAMAGED in my eyes.
I am not capable of putting forth an effort of will to become like you. like any of you.
I am not capable of consenting to a contract that defines me as a slave, laborer, worker, or employee. If i could consent to the easy way of life, why wouldn't i?
If what all you say is true, why cant i do it like you say i should? If i am the only problem, and the solution is what you say it is, then why am i so physically incapable of walking that path?
My will to live alone is enough to survive without food or water for however long i am willing to endure that level of suffering, but what i mean to say is: SINCE EVERYONE CAN DO IT, THAT ELIMINATES ANY NEED FOR ALL OUR FEARS FOR SURVIVAL AND SUSTINENCE.
IN OTHER WORDS:
We, human beings, dont need everything we have. we dont need to acquire what we WANT, and all fforts to expand beyond the tribal community is only harming the family as a whole.
YOU, YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR DAUGHTER, are contributors to the disease.
Me and everyone on the street are only taking what we need and leaving the rest for others like ourselves.
YOU people take more than you need, to "prepare for the future", thereby depriving others of the same needs that you are hoarding supplies for.
And you have EVERY SINGLE JUSTIFICATION IN THE WORLD FOR THIS.
YOU say that IM wrong.
You people make me sick, and i am not allowed to express that according to your ignorance.
I "insult" you by saying this, i "dont mean" it because i dont mean to insult you, but your very way of living is a blatant slap in the face of life itself!!![/i]
But my words will never convince anyone that maintaining life conditions is more important than survival itself.
What is the point in surviving at THIS point in the world, when the individual life is meaningless, worthless, and easily replaced with a less intelligent and more controllable ignorant slave drone person?
I am not valuable to civilization, because i am a sovereign and willful human being and not a slave and not someone who blindly takes and follows orders, but someone who demands to know WHY?
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Post by Kata Samoes on Jun 9, 2010 23:53:48 GMT -5
I hate this..I hate this..I hate this...but
*flexes admin powers*
Deleted KG's last post. It was unacceptable and not like her. This will be resolved in private. The post is saved, just in case.
Stoner is temporarily demoted. I am not liking your attitude towards fellow members of this board in general, and fear for the safety of this board and its contents. Again this is temporary.
I will respond to this later..maybe..when our issue is resolved.
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Post by KG on Jun 10, 2010 5:43:05 GMT -5
OK so I was really really ticked with Stoner... still am, so I won't say much.
Here is one exerpt from my previous post that I feel I absolutely have to say.
Stoner Said
Was this a quote from someone else about you? This is exactly how I view you, always sponging off other people who work for a living, and acting like you are better cause you don't. I'll respect your values when you live in a primative hut in the national forest, and forrage successfully for berries and fruit, walk everywhere you go and still go places, give up internet, and stop acting like you are so superior. YOU live in a house. I live in a house. You eat food and I eat food. The only difference is that I work and pay for my food. I pay my own utilities... bought my own car... and I am looking for a second job, so I can continue to pay my own way and support my family. You are a huge hipocrite. You don't live in the woods. You don't live on nature. you sponge off other people while acting high and mighty cause you are too good to get a job."
You don't want to live in the woods. Given the choice you choose air conditioning, heat, eating food, and playing video games all day, just like the rest of us. Your computer was made by society and someone paid money for it. So WTF Stoner? Where do you get off complaining about us, when you are no different.
If you want to go live in the forest then go. You think everyone should live like that so be an example, but stop taking handouts and stop expecting handouts. You dont' approve of money. Why do you take money people give you for being a bum, but think the money is tainted if it comes in a check you earned working? Why is is wrong to own a car, but perfectly fine for you to expect someone to drive you to California? "People don't need houses, they can sleep on the ground" you say, so why complain when you are homeless, and think you are pitiful. You are living your dream. Yet every time you prefer to live in a house, and you used a charity shelter. Money should not exist, cars should not exist, houses should not exist, so go live in the woods and walk everywhere you want to go. Go live in a TEE PEE. Forrage for food like the primative you want to be, not in the city but in the National forest near your home. I don't care that's your right.
It is not your right to critizise every other person in the world for living the way they choose to live. We have freedom of choice here in america, and freedom of belief here. I will not have you telling other people they are wrong for doing what I they and everyone else in this world including you does when you have a choice. Your way really won't work, and you know that. You'd probably die, but again, your choice. I'd hate it for you, but the rest of us want to live. The rest of us want to work, and do our jobs, and you have no right to say we are wrong when you aren't doing any of the things you preach about... except not working... which is hardly an accomplishment.
You don't apprecate anything anyone gives you, or tries to help you with... words or actions.... and you don't listen to others, and choose to argue senselessly when people try to explain things to you, so I don't see the sense in discussing anything with you anymore. You need to shut up and listen, read and study. You don't pay attention and only think you are right all the time and really you know very little because you spend all your time arguing rather than trying to learn. You know nothing about wilderness survival, or other things you claim to be interested in. you know very little about other cultures, and how they do things. you don't understand the monetary system you go on and on about.
Mostly, you don't understand that most people get great satisfaction from their jobs, and from earning a paycheck, and they certainly have no desire to be liberated from their money. They like it, and you have no right to say that is wrong. You only decide for yourself. You do not rule the world, and thank God for that, but you do need to rule yourself and do what YOU feel is right, and still find a balance between what is possible and what isn't. Very few people could live in the way you suggest, but it is a learned skill... living in the forest, and you could learn. I suggest either you do learn, or you stop this nonsense. You aren't living by your values, you are just refusing to work for what you need. Instead you are using people, and taking charity, that isn't the same thing as providing for yourself, or survival.
The bottom line is Stoner, that no one owes you a damned thing, and everything your mom, dad, me, my mother, the people of this site, and the people who run that shelter you stayed at did was out of the goodness of their hearts to help you. You don't ever use the words Thank you... but instead hate them for trying. I give up Stoner I really really really give up this time. Do whatever you want, but don't you dare say anything else negative about my daughter or my husband, or the people of this forum. YOU are certainly not in a position to find fault with others.
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Post by Kata Samoes on Jun 10, 2010 11:14:59 GMT -5
Given this is Kim's board, I will let her have the final say on this but:
The demotion is permanent, until KG decides otherwise. I, personally, will not tolerate someone having power in our community that cannot respect our fellow members. Given how you have abused Del earlier and cussed her out, cussed out Kim and dismissed anything I have said, then try to get pity? I will not tolerate such hate, and that's based on your most recent actions.
This is a result of my discussion with Kim about her earlier post.
Any other action taken against Stoner will be discussed and decided upon in private.
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Post by stonerwolf on Jun 10, 2010 11:48:04 GMT -5
i dont care about my fecking title, it's nothing! what the hell does that even mean to you?
F**k that i dont know.
I dont care kim. okay?
Your diseased mentality has destroyed the original lifeways of all human beings on thsi planet.
I DO NOT CONDONE THAT PERIOD.
i cannot successfully live off nature alone, you know why?
because damned near all the vital resources are controlled by your mentally diseased herd who thinks it's okay to hoard and store resources, thereby depriving the simple living beings of their own natural simplicity.
Your civilized ways of living are ALL FEAR ORIENTED.
I cant live like that.
Yo uact liek i am completely against putting an effort into my life and you are dead wrong.
I am against all my efforts in my life belonging to another person or entity. i am agaisnt signing a contract sayign that my labort belongs to a company.
I liked working for YOU, kim. i HATED workign for dollar general.
WHY?
Because i was a slave to teh corporation, but i was your equal.
YOU SICKEN ME SO F**kING MUCH that you cant even see how simple this is. i KNOW you can see it. i jsut cant comprehend why you are so TERRIFIED TO LOOK
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Post by Kata Samoes on Jun 10, 2010 12:02:25 GMT -5
Maybe I'm rash..or defensive..
But Stoner has been suspended for 1 week. Energy is blocked in that time, lingering, conscious, and existing.
I will not tolerate abuse from you anymore.
Now I will go and enjoy my day.
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Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jun 11, 2010 2:52:33 GMT -5
Alright, looking at the patterns of the first bits of stuff Stoner said at the beginning of this thread... You have power within, you have a direction if you wish to grow up and move on from your childish utopia. Interdependence is being lost and confused if it is parasitic. If you are looking for symbiosis, then good, go and become SELF RELIANT first. Then look for someone to depend on other than yourself, but first, DEPEND ON YOURSELF. See last section of the above statement and add "get a job." Improvements are still improvements. Move on then. Life is what YOU make of it, first and foremost. If YOU have problems, fix them. No one can work with you on this because you don't have a plan of action, self reliance or self respect. Alright, if you've seen a pattern, perhaps there's something to it? I'll give you a helping hand. Please, don't bite it, as you seem to have a penchant for doing. Please, browse the following links. www.howtowritearesume.net/www.careerbuilder.comWords are great guidance when you listen to them. Would you like an example of what to do? Alright, here you go, your mother, your father, anyone who works to support themselves and/or a family. Please broaden your search terms. So.... just get a job and don't be a hippy? Live clean and straight also helps. Freedom comes from work, work comes from purpose, purpose comes from self determine, self determination comes from freedom. Deal with the circle, live in the circle. To quote the whole block is pointless, however, YES! Essentially, keep looking for something that works! Alright, lets look at this statement a little. You want an interdependent community. Ok, that's all well and good. You want one that is "free of political obligations to any nation or governing body". It isn't going to happen. Every group has a governing body and every group extends its ideals to others. Politics is that extension to others. Human community is built on politics. Too bad we can't change nature. You also want no direct involvement with said community, then you wish a parasitic relationship? (Please see above comments.) You lack a brain and self determination. You just summed up the ENTIRETY of existence. Now grow up, get yourself straightened out mentally, or sink deeper into insanity and then you can leach off of all the hard working tax payers as you rock in a padded cell for endless years. For a nice set of questions you really should ask yourself and REALLY think about before you REALLY think up an answer, I will quote a Babylon 5 faction called the Technomagi's words. Think this over, don't post an answer to this, keep it in your heart and mind. The answers will become your driving force once you've found them. Also, please, don't disrespect those of us with the Wolf's spirit. Change your tag. Now, politely, F*** off and grow up! Have a nice day. (Pardon any harsh language, written or inferred.) I didn't see that the case was closed, but I still do not retract my statements and my only hope is that he eventually reads this and the lightbulb goes off in his head.
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Post by KG on Jun 11, 2010 12:26:26 GMT -5
Thanks for your opinion on all this Lan, I am kind of suprised that everyone agreed with me. I thank Kata for being a moderator, at a time when I just... kind of went off the air.
One correction though, Kata says it's my board, but I've always shared power, and while I say what I say, I rarely act as a moderator, or speak for anyone other than myself... unless I had spoken with everyone about something... however I think we've all come to an agreement of sorts about Stoner... or at least the people who are posting lately... I will try not to say anything else to run Stoner down. He's entitled to his opinion, but when he asks repeatedly for advice, and then decides he knows everything he's been doing is right, even though his stuff isn't working for him, well... it's hard to justify continuing this conversation.
Mostly though everyone else here is trying to make it in this world, and it isn't easy. I know I am doing my best to try harder... and do more, and it's all very very hard. We don't need to be told we are wrong, when it takes all we have to do what we are already doing.
Anyway I think we all need to focus on the positive things we can do. I'm not opposed to saving the planet, and there are some viable things people can do to help in that. I'm not opposed to self employment... and anyone can do that. You don't have to work for the system. You can work for yourself... but really when you work, you do work for yourself... and for the customer, who is a person just like you. You also work for a company, which is just like a company you would start except it has grown bigger. It's not evil... though I suggest that people work for comaanies they can be proud of, mostly we all do what we have to.
But whether you are bussing tables, sitting behind a desk, or hanging from a stripper pole, IMO a paycheck is something to be proud of. It is taking responsibility for yourself and your family in whatever way you can, so that you aren't a burden to others. I'm preaching to myself at this point, but if it helps you guys then good. It's certainly nothing to be ashamed of.
I personally believe in work. I believe that doing something about your needs and the needs of others, is very important.
Being (in a spiritual sense) is also important, but it's kind of a balance. You can be and not do, and you can do to the point you become unaware of your being... but you still are a being... but if you are a being who doesn['t do anything, then are you really being? My old pastor who was very wise, once said "some people are so heavenly minded they do no earthly good." He was a very spiritual person, but he was saying that we need a balance, between pie in the sky, and results.
In addition to just taking care of ourselves and our familes we DO have a responsibility to the rest of the world. As spiritual people we have a greater responsibility perhaps because of our special insights. We can make a difference if we TRY. We can't change human nature or undo history or make radical changes which the majority of people don't want, but we can make a difference. Both by spiritual means and physical actions or even just our words we CAN impact most situations at least a little if we try. The key though is to form a plan and DO something.
Inaction is the worst thing we can do, and I of all people feel like a hipocrite saying that because it seems like the older I get the harder it is to get off my butt... LOL but like I said, I'm preaching to me right now, and the rest of you might find it helpful... sure it's kind of unnerving to go out and try to get a job, or start a business, or form some cause fighting organization, or even get up and clean the kitchen sometimes.... but we have to do all these things from time to time. I think we should use this board to get up the nerve to do what we need to do, and we just don't need this constant nay saying... and getting bitched out for doing what we are supposed to do, especially by someone who is doing absolutely nothing, and has been doing little or nothing all his life.
Kim
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