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Jul 9, 2008 20:47:04 GMT -5
Post by KG on Jul 9, 2008 20:47:04 GMT -5
Yes Kata. I don't know if I said it anywhere on this thread or not, but we DO need your input on some practical matters. I haven't tried to get a job in many many years. I've been self employed since the 80's. Job hunting has changed a lot since then, what with everyone wanting you to apply on line, and we all know they ignore most of those applications. I was wondering if you could give some tips to Lan and some of the other young people on job hunting. I am sure there is something you could say that would help them find work.
I also wanted your advice on fixing Lan's computer, but since he had it repaired already, I guess that isn't needed.
Also a year or two ago, you advised me on gaining control of my life, and dealing with some of my personal... er... lack of being able to say what I want, and a sort of polite dishonesty I had, of denying how I really felt about people to their face. I admit I haven't followed it perfectly, but I was able to get my point across at least to my husband. Thanks for that, things are going much better, since I have stopped hinting and started stating. I was wondering if you had some advice for Lan on dealing with his mom, and also just having self confidence, and taking charge of his life. You are a take charge kind of guy, and I know you would be better able to tell him something credible, than I. Believe me I am no expert on handling mothers. Mine still bosses me around, and then acts like she is pitiful cause I don't jump fast enough to suit her. In all honesty she does need my help, but she is very impatient about when and it constantly disrupts my schedule because she nags. Anyway that is beside the point, but you are good at sticking up for yourself, and Lan needs your instruction on the subject. Maybe some others would benefit from your wisdom as well. I know I would.
Anyway several people need to know, how to get a job, including how to make a good impression, both on an application, and with interviews. They also need advice on how to take control of their lives, especially handling people so they aren't run all over. I still have trouble with that one myself, so it is hard to advise someone else on something I am not doing very well myself. Also How to develop and enforce their rights within their own homes, and Lan is having all these problems at once. So any advice you can give would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Kim
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Jul 9, 2008 21:16:39 GMT -5
Post by KG on Jul 9, 2008 21:16:39 GMT -5
With all due respect Lan, your mom wanting you to ask permission to clean, is just so strange to me, that I am completely baffled. Also the idea that she keeps the house imaculate all by herself is just... how the F**k does she do that? I can't keep a path blazed out by myself much less clean to the point where there are huge open spaces. I envy and sort of admire her for that, but not for forbiding you from cleaning your room without permission. You've mentioned before that she is controling, but that is beyond logic. I can see where some of the problems you are having now could spring from that sort of treatment.
Her message seems clear. She is saying that you dont' have sense enough to clean your room, fix your computer, or pour pee out of a boot without detailed instructions, and a map. I think that is just insulting to you, and quite untrue. If you don't know how to do some things, it is BECAUSE of her behavior and treatment of you which would make you unsure of yourself and also keep you unnaturally dependent on her. I know we've said this before, but you HAVE to get out of there!!! Soon. Either that or just do what you want and ignore her. Most guys do ignore their moms on stuff like this, not that most guys have stuff this extreme, but it sounds like you need to make some kind of stand. This is just unfair as heck.
Maybe Kata will come up with some advice that will work to get you feeling better about yourself and make you able to take control of your life. Also he might be able to advise you on a more effective method of applying for jobs. Anyone else with advice on job hunting is welcome to respond too, we have several people with jobs here, and several still looking. Overall it is a tough time to look for work but I think it can be done.
Kim
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Jul 9, 2008 23:15:25 GMT -5
Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jul 9, 2008 23:15:25 GMT -5
I've made stands before and she's hid my car keys, turned off the power (I didn't even know she knew how to work the breaker box), and threatened to kick me out. I've been without a cellphone for 3 weeks now because everything witht he cell phones is in her name and I can't do crap. I need a job and then time enough to save up a few thousand dollars to get my own place, I know. I'm pissed off horribly... I've no clue what's going on and I have no friends around here that I could move in with. The only place I have ANY freedom is at school and even there, I'm unable to do even my most basic homework passed 9pm, when they close the labs... My mom just said that she wants to Deleware for some reason. As far as I know, there's no ITT Techs on the east coast for me to transfer stuff to. I know the job market there is a little better than here, but I need to stay in school until I get something. I'm starting to depress myself again so I'm just going to shush now and go read Lord of the Rings.
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Jul 10, 2008 11:15:35 GMT -5
Post by KG on Jul 10, 2008 11:15:35 GMT -5
What she is doing is downright criminal... and yet so hard to prove. She might as well have you chained to the toilet, and yet such a velvet prison. Everything looks so normal on the surface.
You have to get out of there Lan. Take a job, any job and get out of that situation. It is criminal to treat someone that way. Go to some responsible adult relative, anyone who could help you, and plead your case. This is just wrong to treat an adult that way. What does your father say? I mean she is keeping you from getting a job. She is preventing you from ever leaving, and she is doing it deliberately. That is just sick.
Kim
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Jul 10, 2008 12:34:05 GMT -5
Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jul 10, 2008 12:34:05 GMT -5
My dad says he's retired and won't take another job. He's not been looking either and we need the money. He was a police officer. Relatives won't take me in because I'm "spoiled" or some shit. Yeah I get what I ask for because it's the only way I can get anything. I don't usually ask for much and bla... honestly, I'm just going to forget about it until I can actaully DO something about my issue. Right now I'm powerless.
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Jul 10, 2008 14:25:26 GMT -5
Post by ShutterBug on Jul 10, 2008 14:25:26 GMT -5
My dad was an over controlling ... person. He was psychotic, but I don't think he'd ever be that psychotic.
Good luck with your situation. I would love to say "I HAVE MARVELOUS ADVICE" and BAM it'd be good, but I don't. What I'd do is passive agression, which is what it sounds like you're doing.
Good luck. There HAVE to be ITT Techs there somewhere! I know there's a few in FL, alone.
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Jul 10, 2008 19:27:17 GMT -5
Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jul 10, 2008 19:27:17 GMT -5
I think I'm being unfair to you all. I only post here when I have issues... I'm never happy when I decide I should post and that isn't right. I think I should either delete my account or cure problems before I start talking again... I'll not delete my account, so... I'll be back on whenever I feel better.
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Jul 10, 2008 19:43:53 GMT -5
Post by KG on Jul 10, 2008 19:43:53 GMT -5
Lan,
Please do not ever delete your account. You are a valued and loved member of this forum. We all love you very much, and you have helped me a lot over the years. I am concerned for you, that is all. It isn't that you upset us.. or that we mind sharing your troubles. You share ours with us, and so it is only fair. We are like family. Your issues are not unlike the issues we all face.
You do post when you are not upset, or at any rate you post a lot. You deleted your account accidentally seven months ago, and you are still up to 330 posts, in only seven months, so unless you are upset an awful lot of the time, you do post when you are not upset. We all post when we are upset though, and I have unloaded my personal stuff on the forum before, so have most of us. It is fine to do that. We just love you and want to help.
I don't want you to leave... please Lan. You are a cool person to know and we love you very much.
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Jul 10, 2008 20:03:57 GMT -5
Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jul 10, 2008 20:03:57 GMT -5
*shrugs* I dunno... I just fel like I always post when I'm pissed and only then... but whatever... I'll poke around I guess, then... if I post, then I'll post, otherwise.. meh... heh I'm going insain and really shoudln't I guess. I'll ignore my issues... I need to get a job before the end of the week... that's my goal... mainly so I can play Lord of the Rings Online and not have to pay for it after a one time fee. Small goals... as Ash said heh.
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Jul 10, 2008 23:31:58 GMT -5
Post by stonerwolf on Jul 10, 2008 23:31:58 GMT -5
hey, dont stress it, jsut take life one day at a time, and give it your best shot.
if your best shot isnt enough, dont let it bring you down, jsut save face and look at your mistakes as a lesson and try to learn how to overcome life's challenges.
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Jul 11, 2008 13:06:01 GMT -5
Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jul 11, 2008 13:06:01 GMT -5
My mistakes were, in order, not moving out when I just got out of highschool, even though I hadn't had a job that long and probably coudln't afford rent AND to feed myself, not killing myself when I didn't move out, and then, finally, being too weak to off myself all those times I've sat down and tried... I'm in a no win situation.
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Jul 11, 2008 13:23:44 GMT -5
Post by ShutterBug on Jul 11, 2008 13:23:44 GMT -5
Killing yourself is NEVER the answer, and the fact that you haven't done it IS NOT a mistake.
Trust me. I've been pretty suicidual lately. But killing yourself only hurts those who care about you.
Don't think like that.
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Jul 11, 2008 13:41:33 GMT -5
Post by stonerwolf on Jul 11, 2008 13:41:33 GMT -5
My mistakes were, in order, not moving out when I just got out of highschool, even though I hadn't had a job that long and probably coudln't afford rent AND to feed myself, not killing myself when I didn't move out, and then, finally, being too weak to off myself all those times I've sat down and tried... I'm in a no win situation. Dude, we all are, you think i dont feel that same pain and angst? GRANTED i never had a job till i was in North Carolina, im no better off than you are, hell i dont think i know anyone who IS, except kim's husband! and really, i dont think that is all that better off to be honest! what, exactly, are you griping about anyways? chat me on MSN and vent it out, maybe i'll pick up on it better that way.
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Jul 11, 2008 22:30:21 GMT -5
Post by KG on Jul 11, 2008 22:30:21 GMT -5
Well first off I am glad none of you killed yourselves. I love you all, and we are a team here. When one hurts we all hurt. I am sorry things are going rough for so many of you, but there is a logical explaination, and it isn't that you guys are slack. This Country is in a RECESSION. It will end eventually and probably sooner rather than later. We acatually have recession with inflation and there is massive unemployment. That is tough on everyone, or at least everyone who makes less than a couple hundred thousand a year, provided they can keep their jobs. Probably even they are getting nervous.
The economy is worse than it has been in my lifetime, and I have seen some tough times. At the risk of offending republicans I'll tell you the story of what caused it, and also tell you that it is about to end. In 1967 things were OK people were happy and hopeful 1978.... massive layoffs right after Nixon was elected. Nixon was president for four years, and there was recession.
We had an election which could have changed the course of all of this. McGovern vs. Nixon... but McGovern was seen as too liberal for the times. The Moral Majority (which later became the religious right) was the problem. The average Joe was just terrified of legalizing pot, still disturbed by forced intergration, and fretting that it would lead to interracial dating. They were 'afraid' crazy, immoral and criminal 'hippies' who took 'dope' would take over the country. They feared the changing morals which today have changed in spite of their votes. They didn't enjoy the media trying to shove all kinds of new values down their throats. At first the war protests were seen as cowardly nonsense by people who were afraid to fight for their country... but even the so called moral folks were starting to get tired of the war, due to the fact we weren't winning, or loosing either really, it was just a stalemate which the government prolonged on purpose, as part of the cold war. Korea, and Vietnam as well as a few less publicized incidents all over the world, were just the US and Soviet Union flexing their muscles at each other, and playing a quiet chess match with third world countries, and american and russion troups as pawns.
So then desperate to win the election Nixon ended the war. It made it really easy for folks to vote for him, but he was still nuts and did some really illegal shit, though nothing like what Bush has done. As a result Nixon was elected, but also many democrat Senators and Representitives in the same election. The Democrats were out for blood. They impeached Nixon, and revealed all his nastiest secrets. People were shocked. Nixon resigned, trying to stop the stories from getting out. Things were awful because the entire nation was disolusioned with government. American People discovered the depths of political corruption in the US, really for the first time. The common emotion was like a 12 year old girl who's first crush violently raped her in every orifice of her body. There were no more illusions, and no more political infatuations for most of us who lived through that time, and really understood what happened, but like a psychological result the nation was split between those who wanted to believe in the country again, and those who were too hurt to ever trust again. I was only 12 at the time.
Ford and Carter tried to put things together again, but before Nixon went out of office he saw to it that everything was wrecked. He'd even tried to push the red button to launch the missles towards Russia. Thankfully he was stopped in that atempt, but the damage to our economy and credibility was quite devistating. Things gradually improved though, and Carter made a lot of long term improvements which are helping us even now. For one thing he forced car manufacturers to build cars that were better on gas mileage. If it were not for Carter, not only would we be paying $4.00 a gallon at the pumps, but our cars would be getting 8-12 miles per gallon. So things could be worse.
Then Regan took office, and wrecked everything much worse than it was. There was massive unemployment, and a major cut in social spending. People were evicted, and forclosed on, but not as many as are now. Companies which are closed now, laid off then, and cut back on production... but they stayed open and eventually re-hired. Now they are just gone... to India, China, and the third world. After 8 years of what we thought was hell, with rising prices, massive unemployment, and many other problems things were still not like they are now, but it was like maybe half as bad, and there was no war, so that made it better. The elder President Bush was little different than Regan, but things begin to seem stable, if not good.
Then we got Clinton, and for most people that was 8 years of heaven for most people. Things were GOOD, from 1992-2000. More ordinary people became millionares, by starting small businesses during those years than ever before. Jobs were plentiful, and inflation wasn't that extreme either. Food especially stayed cheep. The Clinton Administration was the best ever for economic improvement, but...
In 2000 the Japanese, and American stock markets crashed immediately upon the announcement of George W. Bush as president. Things have sucked ever since, worse than ever. All experts agree that he is the worst president in American History, and the country has never been in a worse mess, for absolutely not reason at all, except that moron.
You guys aren't unemplyed because you are any less deserving than kids of previous generaions, but the sense of hoplessness is hard to fight. Just fight it a little longer though, cause we have an election coming up.
What you can expect after the election, provided that Obama wins.
1. The stock market will go up the moment the election is announced. This will stimulate the economy, and provide jobs before the man ever takes office.
2. A massive influx of other Democrat Senators will also be elected, and there will be bills waiting for Obama on his first day at work, which will help the American People tremendously. There will be bills to help the environment, stimulate the economy, and create jobs. Obama will pass all this because it is what he wants.
Now all that is with little or no confidence in anything Obama actually does. That much will just happen, and that alone will be enough to start the ball rolling.
Things will get better I promise you, when it comes to looking for a job. You guys will get jobs... the world hasn't always been this bleak, and it won't always be this bleak. The current administration has made it this bad on purpose, but things can't stay this way forever. There have always been ups and downs, but with the exception of the Great Depression, and the post civil war South, it has never been this bad. Not even in the Nixon days. Not even in the days of Reganomics, which were designed to crush the economy for everyone but the very rich, just like the Bush plan... but it was much less effective.
The situation is both economic and spiriutal. While the Religious right were hoodwinked into believing that Bush was a "Christain" moral man, nothing could have been fruther from the truth. Actually they had been tricked into giving away most of their TRUE faith back in the mid 1980's, due to major restructuring of the doctorines of the church to match this "religious right" movement. The movement itself could be easily compared to their own feared nemisis "anti Christ" Anti Christ, mearly means against Christ, or opposite of Christ. Christ taught a doctorine of love, generosity, healing, and acceptance. The religious right teaches religious exclusivity, greed, lack of charity, war, and hate mongering racism. That is what it always taught, even when it was the moral majority, trying to make McGovern sound like a bad guy for wanting racial equality. Now it is the Republican Religious right, who hate the Rag Heads, and the Mexicans, but it is still the same thing. What the Religous right teaches isn't Christianity, and what it is has plunged the nation, and to a large extent the entire world, into spiritual darkness, due to the wide spread nature of their ignorance, and also the effect it has had on the rest of the world, making them so fearful of our insane religious holy war nation.
Not since the witch trials has so much ignorance been fostered on our country. Not since the Dark Ages has there been so much hatred, fear, war mongering, and insane parionoid nonsense. This ancient spirit of ignorance raised its ugly head powerfully in the masses, and went unchallenged in churches for about 20 years, growing in power. Now it's time is short, but it is working very hard to capture what it can, before it goes down.
A fatal blow has been dealt though as people are at least waking up to the fact they have lost their homes, their jobs, and everything else. Suddenly those special interest side issues they were brainwashed into beliving were important, seem kind of stupid even to them.
I completely believe we have seen the worst of the problems, and now things will get better. Please don't give up, cause our situation will improve drasticly in about six months to a year. You will be able to get jobs, and do what you want. It will all get easier. True it won't change Lan's mom, but it might effect her just a little if the atmosphere of our nation changes. Even she is a product of her enviornment, so she might lighten up... but even if not, If things went back to the way they were in 1979 - 1999, at most any point during that You all could get at least some kind of job, or become very successfully self employed. Even the worst recessions of the past weren't this bad. Only when outsourcing became common did unemployment get out of hand. Only when huge oil companies were allowed free reign, and given a blank check, did prices sky rocket.
I know I took a lot of time explaining this, but I felt it was necessary to make my point, which is simple... it will get better in a very short period of time, but you guys have grown up in one of the roughest times in modern history to try to find work. Lan the oldest is 25 right, so you were 17 eight years ago. You've been trying to get a job in the worst possible market, and so have the rest of you. It is god awful right now, and many people are out of work. AT least you aren't being foreclosed on, but the cost to your self esteme from being blamed for something that isn't your fault is just unfair. Now I'm not saying you can't find jobs now, but I am saying that is is SOOOO much harder than it was when I was young, and things have been done to you on purpose to hold you back. Bush wanted you to all join the army, bad enough to cripple the country with this artificially created unemployment. That is over now, or will be soon. Obama will end this crazy war, and release all those jobs being held over seas back to us. New programs will increase the number of jobs, as we earnestly look for and put into practice new forms of energy to replace the old fossel fuels. It would have been done in Carter's day, if Regan hadn't been elected, but the gass shortages of those days proved to be a hoax, and so they stopped working on it. Now the problem is clearly not that we are out of fuel, but that the earth can't handle any more of it being burned. The answers will be found, now that the Religious right has shut up, and the Corporations' lobbyists are about to have their chops busted by Obama. Things will get better now, because we've learned one more time that the other way will not work. Will we face tough times again? Sure, but hopefully not this bad for a long time.
Right now a new day is dawning. Wait and see. It will get much better.
Kim
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Jul 12, 2008 1:05:03 GMT -5
Post by Kata Samoes on Jul 12, 2008 1:05:03 GMT -5
Alrighty, I'll give, because I still owe Kim a favor for something she did a long ass time ago. (Dammit lol).
First my explanation about why I think my experiences are lacking: I'm in the SAME F**kING BOAT as Lan. However, I will share my advice despite this.
Lan, hear me out. I am your friend, and I am supportive..in more ways than you think. So, listen.
Grow the F**k up. I say this because you have every goddamn right to bitch and moan about your mother, and I have gained a lot of respect for you about that. My mother does the same shit to me: guilt trips, leaves me when I'm pissed off AT HER, more guilt trips, excuses and excuses about why this cannot do that. I will stand up for myself and fight her tooth and F**king nail about the most mediocre and USELESS SHIT that should be handled with a calm but quick conversation...not one that lasts for 2 F**king hours and me having to raise my voice to get my point across. I am speaking very specifically here about one situation as an example, but this same shit has happened before and likely will in the future.
So why did I say what I said? Because, as unfortunate as I hate to see it and say it, and as much as you really don't want to hear it: you're girl thingy-footing around your mother, and enabling her the control she's desiring. Would you like to know why? "Her little boy, so innocent and loyal to Mommy, is growing up and becoming independent." You're not F**king little. You're not innocent by a long shot (and I know you know exactly what I'm referring to here, good sir). Loyaltly? Ended years ago, and she feels threatened by it. I'm in the same boat as you.
Grow the F**k up.
While your feelings are not to be ashamed of (and you'd be an idiot to think I even implied it, but you're not), your attitude is something else entirely. Own up to your faults BUT DO NOT HATE THEM. Strengthen up, work on them, and get the F**k OUT of that shell of yours! You're the man who knew this day would come and you're hiding from it, but knowing full well what needs to be done. Accept that, work with it, stand up and do not take her bullshit. Express yourself..and move on.
AS FOR THE JOB SITUATION
Dress nicely and present yourself in nice and decent attire both for applications and interviews, especially since the latter may be on-the-spot on possible occasion. Khakis, color based on your taste (and what you feel comfortable wearing, color-wise) work good, but nice pants work too (black jeans are acceptable IF and ONLY IF you know it looks acceptable). When in doubt, play it safe. Suits are not good, though, unless you're applying at a proper office setting like cubicles and all that fantastic stuff. Comb your hair (no shit, right) but make sure it looks good. Gel and mouse works, if that's what you feel okay with. Brush teeth, as usual, and when presenting yourself keep a pleasant look about you. Attitude speaks loudly, and so does behavior. Smiling, polite but don't fake it. Know your manners, while not being an ass.
Online applications? Here's the thing about the online applications: Not a single one is ignored, BUT they are filtered. Ignore the damn oxymoron implication. 8 out of 10 (not a typo) applications will have specific, hidden, trick questions that qualify to be looked at or maybe..dismissed. Maybe there's one, or two. Consistency is key, and don't freak over the damn personality questions. Keep honest and RELEVANT to the job. I'll give you an example. I applied to work at my job online, and the application (the online assessment) SPECIFICALLY says not to overdo it and be honest. They want, and need answers relevant to the job you seek and people who're able to carry them out.
First impressions, even on those damn applications, are KEY. The assessment is your first chance at that impression.
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