Post by KG on Aug 23, 2007 2:37:26 GMT -5
I’ve been thinking a lot about things recently. People sometimes ask if I am a Christian, and of course I am, but I just don’t fit in with their beliefs, and moral systems at all any more. I can’t even pretend it is right. The church got a lot of things crossed up over the years. Some were accidental, and some were on purpose, others were outside influences, both physical and spiritual. The thing is the Christian church is more a western culture thing, than a Jesus thing.
What happened was that after Jesus was crucified, and rose again, he disappeared for a while. He was kind of in and out, because he wasn't physical. He was what eastern religion calls an ascended master. Many yogis have also resurrected in the same way. Now that doesn't mean Jesus wasn't special. His mission was very important, and it was a turning point in the struggle between Gods stern side, and his gentle side. I understand this allot differently than the average born again Christian does, because I have read more, but I was once exactly where they are, and heard all their teachings.
I see God as a vast being that encompasses everything. Thus part of God was sterner, and Jesus won out over that part, and defeated it, while leaving the rest of God's awesome character in tact. Now I see the facets that make up God as both separate, and unified. Thus I seem to be into polytheism, but really it is just the belief the ancient Jews called Cabbalism, which can be spelled with either a Q or a K. It basically states that one God has many parts or personas, which act as one. Most true religions have similar systems. There is one God in that he is united, at least for the most part, but at the same time he has many aspects of his personality, and they are the sum total of the universe. I know that is confusing, and that is why most Christians aren't comfortable with it, and can't grasp it. The Yogis believe this, and also believe in Jesus Christ, but also in Krishna... some think he is one in the same.
As for Esoteric, I have only one problem with it... it is supposed to be secret, and that is how the church got in such a confused mess to start with. The Gnostics had two levels of membership, Novice and Initiate. They were what I believe was the true church. They split from the guys who wrote our bible, after Mary Magdalene had a vision of Christ, and Peter didn't believe her. Peter was stuffy, prejudiced against women, and I picture him as much like the typical red neck guys of today. He wasn't a bad guy, just temperamental, and kind of opinionated. Thomas got angry at Peter, and they fought. In the end, Thomas took Mary and went east, while Peter and his group went north toward Rome and the rest of Europe. It took many generations to finally spread over Europe.
As time went on, the esoteric, Gnostic like Christians had trouble holding up against the vindictive, Peter styled Catholic types. They have been slaughtered repeatedly over the centuries, thus the need for secrecy. The Catholics have a Secret too though, and that is that their rules and teachings aren't based on the Teachings of Christ.
About 350 years after Christ, the Christians had spread all over most of the known world. There were many factions, and groups. These groups could not agree on anything, and they all got very inflexible and opinionated. They were habitually angry with each other, and they fought with each other and with pagans as well. They began to be a huge problem for the Roman Government who sought to control their religion, and keep it from being so extreme and volatile. The Roman Government had a meeting with the official "Church" of Christians which was a forerunner of the Catholics of today. They said, ":Look you people would be OK with us, if you would all just make up your minds what you believe, stop fighting among yourselves, and stop making wild claims that the others find blasphemous." At first the Romans let the Catholics discuss the issue, but eventually they too became involved in this meeting. They started dictating what the church would believe, and the next thing you know the Catholic priests and the pope walked out. They were totally disgusted with the meeting, and thought it would stop if they left, but it didn't. The Pagan Romans, decided on the beliefs that the Catholic Church would have. No one was happy, but it ended the Roman persecution of at least the Christians who agreed to go along with the weird watered down story they came up with. Today people still believe most of this weird watered down story. It isn't that all of it is untrue, just that most of the facts were omitted and changed around.
The Catholic Church had an esoteric and exoteric side, but the only people who could be involved in the esoteric were the male priests. In return they forced celibacy on the priesthood. Jesus NEVER suggested people should be celibate. The Jewish tradition didn't practice that either. It was a Roman idea. The Exoteric Christians were kept ignorant of everything, including the bible as we know it. Catholics were not encouraged to read the bible for themselves till very recently.
There were plenty of other esoteric around. Some of them had bits and pieces of the true gospels, and some had knowledge of the secret teachings of Christ which he only shared with a few people. Now the reason they were secret was because the Jews would have crucified him sooner if they had heard some of that stuff. The secrecy of true esoteric is for the same reason, to keep from being crucified, burned at the sake, or otherwise assaulted by the established church and government, or in today's society to keep from being called crazy.
True esoteric who have visions, and experiences were always persecuted. Many of the people burned as witches and heretics were esoteric Christians. They weren’t Satanists. Many Kabalistic Jews were also burned as witches. The REAL target of the witch trials, the Spanish inquisition, and the albagenian crusade, wasn't witchcraft, or Satanism, or anything like that. They were trying to hide the fact that there forefathers, lied and covered up the true gospel, in that first meeting with the Romans, and that their church deliberately fed lies and half truths to the ignorant, and largely illiterate masses.
When it became time to assemble a bible to be mass produced and printed, they picked books that were 'safe' These books are as true as any for the most part, but they don't go into as much detail as some of the ones they rejected, and they didn't really disagree with what the church was teaching directly. None of the books in the New Testament were actually written by anyone who actually met the physical Jesus Christ while he was alive on the earth. Not a single one of them. However many books exist that WERE written by Christ's decuples, family members, and his wife. These were left out of our bible, for what I'd call political reasons.
There are some out and out lies in Church tradition that do not appear in the bible one way or the other.
1. According to church tradition Jesus ascended into heaven 40 days after the resurrection, and was never seen or heard from after. According to the Gnostic Gospels he appeared among his friends and disciples, many times, and describes a meeting 16 years after that. The atheists are having a field day with this as proof that Jesus didn't die on the cross. I believe he did, but that his ascension was made up. There is such strong evidence that this Ascension into heaven story was added in the third century AD, that the Revised Standard Version of the bible, has a foot note explaining it isn't a part of the original text, and was added... and they give the date. Most people just find all this confusing today, because they were fed a lie.
2. The bible doesn't say one way or the other if Jesus was married, but there is evidence in it that he was. Mary Magdalene was allowed to go with Jesus' mother and sisters, to treat the body for long term burial. This was a wife's place, not a female friend's place. Only family. Since this procedure involved viewing his body, possibly nude, of course only his mother, sisters and wife could go. In addition if he had not been married it would have been very strange and worth mentioning. Most Jewish people married very early in life, rabbis included.
There were many reasons Jesus’ marriage was left out. First the Magdalene was hated by the Church. She lead a rival cult, as long as she lived, and wrote many books which were still in use by so called witches and heretics, throughout the dark ages. Instead of crediting her with being Jesus’ wife, they instead started myths that confused her with the various prostitutes in the Bible. She wasn't a prostitute at all, but most people today think she was, because of lies and misinformation. The second reason they lied was because they wanted to institute the celibacy rules. The third reason they lied, was because they wanted to drive home the idea that sex was evil, even within marriage, and that somehow, even though God had always encouraged marriage, even in the Old Testament, it was suddenly wrong, for truly spiritual people. This is just a lie, and has opened the door for unnecessary prudishness among church people, and also mental instability and bitterness that lead to cruelty in priests throughout history.
I could go on, but I think I have bored you enough with the history. The fact is that real Christianity is cool, and hardly resembles what the go on with in most modern churches. Jesus wasn't a sinner, according to the church, but if he wasn’t' then most of their rules are BS. Jesus drank. Jesus went to drinking partiers, and hung out with hookers. Jesus was esoteric to the point they would have called him a witch. Jesus was married to a woman who was very spiritual in a non traditional way. She was definitely the kind of woman who would be accused of witchcraft, but you can't get more CHRISTIAN, than marrying Jesus. LOL
The church is disgusting, as a whole, because it makes up a set of rules that no one can follow, or should follow. Then it selectively passes judgment on some, while the very people who do the condemning secretly sin. Historically and in modern times, people have been encouraged or forced to negate, or at least subdue their normal healthy sex drives, while priests and pastors alike, participate in bizarre habits including Sadomasochism, Pedophilia, Solicitation of prostitutes, even torturing people to death, as well as self mutilation and the mutilation of others. The tortures of the inquisitions, and crusades, were nothing more than sexual torture, and snuff film fetish stuff. Extreme S and M because they repressed their natural desires instead of seeking healthy outlets like Marriage, but lets face it any kind of sex is more moral than, sex that results in the agonizing death of a helpless victim.
In short Morality taken too far, and made to encompass things that aren't even wrong, can make people very twisted. The church above all enforced a morality that was false and man made, for the sole purpose of controlling people. They didn't want to risk their collection plate money to be wasted on the bartender, so they made drinking a sin. They didn't want to be bothered with their kids getting ideas from movies, so they made going to movies a sin. They didn't like that loud rock music, so they called that a sin. I have heard many things called sins, including video games, movies, pin ball, dancing, Women cutting their hair, or men not cutting theirs. Watching TV can be sinful, even PBS? Reading can be sinful. You should read your bible, and not waste time on that other stuff. Women shouldn't wear pants, or shorts. Their skirts should come mid-calf, and no higher, no matter what the fashion. They should wear some kind of head covering... and yet the Muslims are strange and narrow minded? There isn’t two cents difference between a Muslim, and an extreme fundamentalist Christian. LOL The only real difference is thank God our nutty extreme Christians don't run the country.
In general Jesus was cool. He lived a sinless life, while doing a lot of things his followers call sinful. His existence on the earth is barely comprehensible because he was a HOLY man, but that doesn't mean he followed a senseless set of rules. Jesus was a rebel, and a liberal, who loved women, and let them speak or listen whenever they wanted. He honestly cared about average people and their problems. He loved the poor, and the destitute... the one group of people he criticized more than any other, were the Pharisees. He said nothing truly negative about anyone else really. It is a real shame that HIS church is full of the kind of people he disliked most, while good people who live their lives in the natural heartfelt emotions of love, charity, and kindness, as he did, are condemned by it.
What happened was that after Jesus was crucified, and rose again, he disappeared for a while. He was kind of in and out, because he wasn't physical. He was what eastern religion calls an ascended master. Many yogis have also resurrected in the same way. Now that doesn't mean Jesus wasn't special. His mission was very important, and it was a turning point in the struggle between Gods stern side, and his gentle side. I understand this allot differently than the average born again Christian does, because I have read more, but I was once exactly where they are, and heard all their teachings.
I see God as a vast being that encompasses everything. Thus part of God was sterner, and Jesus won out over that part, and defeated it, while leaving the rest of God's awesome character in tact. Now I see the facets that make up God as both separate, and unified. Thus I seem to be into polytheism, but really it is just the belief the ancient Jews called Cabbalism, which can be spelled with either a Q or a K. It basically states that one God has many parts or personas, which act as one. Most true religions have similar systems. There is one God in that he is united, at least for the most part, but at the same time he has many aspects of his personality, and they are the sum total of the universe. I know that is confusing, and that is why most Christians aren't comfortable with it, and can't grasp it. The Yogis believe this, and also believe in Jesus Christ, but also in Krishna... some think he is one in the same.
As for Esoteric, I have only one problem with it... it is supposed to be secret, and that is how the church got in such a confused mess to start with. The Gnostics had two levels of membership, Novice and Initiate. They were what I believe was the true church. They split from the guys who wrote our bible, after Mary Magdalene had a vision of Christ, and Peter didn't believe her. Peter was stuffy, prejudiced against women, and I picture him as much like the typical red neck guys of today. He wasn't a bad guy, just temperamental, and kind of opinionated. Thomas got angry at Peter, and they fought. In the end, Thomas took Mary and went east, while Peter and his group went north toward Rome and the rest of Europe. It took many generations to finally spread over Europe.
As time went on, the esoteric, Gnostic like Christians had trouble holding up against the vindictive, Peter styled Catholic types. They have been slaughtered repeatedly over the centuries, thus the need for secrecy. The Catholics have a Secret too though, and that is that their rules and teachings aren't based on the Teachings of Christ.
About 350 years after Christ, the Christians had spread all over most of the known world. There were many factions, and groups. These groups could not agree on anything, and they all got very inflexible and opinionated. They were habitually angry with each other, and they fought with each other and with pagans as well. They began to be a huge problem for the Roman Government who sought to control their religion, and keep it from being so extreme and volatile. The Roman Government had a meeting with the official "Church" of Christians which was a forerunner of the Catholics of today. They said, ":Look you people would be OK with us, if you would all just make up your minds what you believe, stop fighting among yourselves, and stop making wild claims that the others find blasphemous." At first the Romans let the Catholics discuss the issue, but eventually they too became involved in this meeting. They started dictating what the church would believe, and the next thing you know the Catholic priests and the pope walked out. They were totally disgusted with the meeting, and thought it would stop if they left, but it didn't. The Pagan Romans, decided on the beliefs that the Catholic Church would have. No one was happy, but it ended the Roman persecution of at least the Christians who agreed to go along with the weird watered down story they came up with. Today people still believe most of this weird watered down story. It isn't that all of it is untrue, just that most of the facts were omitted and changed around.
The Catholic Church had an esoteric and exoteric side, but the only people who could be involved in the esoteric were the male priests. In return they forced celibacy on the priesthood. Jesus NEVER suggested people should be celibate. The Jewish tradition didn't practice that either. It was a Roman idea. The Exoteric Christians were kept ignorant of everything, including the bible as we know it. Catholics were not encouraged to read the bible for themselves till very recently.
There were plenty of other esoteric around. Some of them had bits and pieces of the true gospels, and some had knowledge of the secret teachings of Christ which he only shared with a few people. Now the reason they were secret was because the Jews would have crucified him sooner if they had heard some of that stuff. The secrecy of true esoteric is for the same reason, to keep from being crucified, burned at the sake, or otherwise assaulted by the established church and government, or in today's society to keep from being called crazy.
True esoteric who have visions, and experiences were always persecuted. Many of the people burned as witches and heretics were esoteric Christians. They weren’t Satanists. Many Kabalistic Jews were also burned as witches. The REAL target of the witch trials, the Spanish inquisition, and the albagenian crusade, wasn't witchcraft, or Satanism, or anything like that. They were trying to hide the fact that there forefathers, lied and covered up the true gospel, in that first meeting with the Romans, and that their church deliberately fed lies and half truths to the ignorant, and largely illiterate masses.
When it became time to assemble a bible to be mass produced and printed, they picked books that were 'safe' These books are as true as any for the most part, but they don't go into as much detail as some of the ones they rejected, and they didn't really disagree with what the church was teaching directly. None of the books in the New Testament were actually written by anyone who actually met the physical Jesus Christ while he was alive on the earth. Not a single one of them. However many books exist that WERE written by Christ's decuples, family members, and his wife. These were left out of our bible, for what I'd call political reasons.
There are some out and out lies in Church tradition that do not appear in the bible one way or the other.
1. According to church tradition Jesus ascended into heaven 40 days after the resurrection, and was never seen or heard from after. According to the Gnostic Gospels he appeared among his friends and disciples, many times, and describes a meeting 16 years after that. The atheists are having a field day with this as proof that Jesus didn't die on the cross. I believe he did, but that his ascension was made up. There is such strong evidence that this Ascension into heaven story was added in the third century AD, that the Revised Standard Version of the bible, has a foot note explaining it isn't a part of the original text, and was added... and they give the date. Most people just find all this confusing today, because they were fed a lie.
2. The bible doesn't say one way or the other if Jesus was married, but there is evidence in it that he was. Mary Magdalene was allowed to go with Jesus' mother and sisters, to treat the body for long term burial. This was a wife's place, not a female friend's place. Only family. Since this procedure involved viewing his body, possibly nude, of course only his mother, sisters and wife could go. In addition if he had not been married it would have been very strange and worth mentioning. Most Jewish people married very early in life, rabbis included.
There were many reasons Jesus’ marriage was left out. First the Magdalene was hated by the Church. She lead a rival cult, as long as she lived, and wrote many books which were still in use by so called witches and heretics, throughout the dark ages. Instead of crediting her with being Jesus’ wife, they instead started myths that confused her with the various prostitutes in the Bible. She wasn't a prostitute at all, but most people today think she was, because of lies and misinformation. The second reason they lied was because they wanted to institute the celibacy rules. The third reason they lied, was because they wanted to drive home the idea that sex was evil, even within marriage, and that somehow, even though God had always encouraged marriage, even in the Old Testament, it was suddenly wrong, for truly spiritual people. This is just a lie, and has opened the door for unnecessary prudishness among church people, and also mental instability and bitterness that lead to cruelty in priests throughout history.
I could go on, but I think I have bored you enough with the history. The fact is that real Christianity is cool, and hardly resembles what the go on with in most modern churches. Jesus wasn't a sinner, according to the church, but if he wasn’t' then most of their rules are BS. Jesus drank. Jesus went to drinking partiers, and hung out with hookers. Jesus was esoteric to the point they would have called him a witch. Jesus was married to a woman who was very spiritual in a non traditional way. She was definitely the kind of woman who would be accused of witchcraft, but you can't get more CHRISTIAN, than marrying Jesus. LOL
The church is disgusting, as a whole, because it makes up a set of rules that no one can follow, or should follow. Then it selectively passes judgment on some, while the very people who do the condemning secretly sin. Historically and in modern times, people have been encouraged or forced to negate, or at least subdue their normal healthy sex drives, while priests and pastors alike, participate in bizarre habits including Sadomasochism, Pedophilia, Solicitation of prostitutes, even torturing people to death, as well as self mutilation and the mutilation of others. The tortures of the inquisitions, and crusades, were nothing more than sexual torture, and snuff film fetish stuff. Extreme S and M because they repressed their natural desires instead of seeking healthy outlets like Marriage, but lets face it any kind of sex is more moral than, sex that results in the agonizing death of a helpless victim.
In short Morality taken too far, and made to encompass things that aren't even wrong, can make people very twisted. The church above all enforced a morality that was false and man made, for the sole purpose of controlling people. They didn't want to risk their collection plate money to be wasted on the bartender, so they made drinking a sin. They didn't want to be bothered with their kids getting ideas from movies, so they made going to movies a sin. They didn't like that loud rock music, so they called that a sin. I have heard many things called sins, including video games, movies, pin ball, dancing, Women cutting their hair, or men not cutting theirs. Watching TV can be sinful, even PBS? Reading can be sinful. You should read your bible, and not waste time on that other stuff. Women shouldn't wear pants, or shorts. Their skirts should come mid-calf, and no higher, no matter what the fashion. They should wear some kind of head covering... and yet the Muslims are strange and narrow minded? There isn’t two cents difference between a Muslim, and an extreme fundamentalist Christian. LOL The only real difference is thank God our nutty extreme Christians don't run the country.
In general Jesus was cool. He lived a sinless life, while doing a lot of things his followers call sinful. His existence on the earth is barely comprehensible because he was a HOLY man, but that doesn't mean he followed a senseless set of rules. Jesus was a rebel, and a liberal, who loved women, and let them speak or listen whenever they wanted. He honestly cared about average people and their problems. He loved the poor, and the destitute... the one group of people he criticized more than any other, were the Pharisees. He said nothing truly negative about anyone else really. It is a real shame that HIS church is full of the kind of people he disliked most, while good people who live their lives in the natural heartfelt emotions of love, charity, and kindness, as he did, are condemned by it.