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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:04:07 GMT -5
Post by Wunderkind on Aug 23, 2009 22:04:07 GMT -5
LOL, I take it back- you remind me of a cat, actually. Perception is what you make it of it, an illusion crafted by Will. How long has your illusion been going on? And I asked the question because I want to know what it truly is- to you. Which knowing are you referring to? Knowing with an uppercase K (as in Knowing oneself) or knowing as in simply being aware of a happening?
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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:12:05 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Aug 23, 2009 22:12:05 GMT -5
Uppercase K, and lowercase K, what difference aside from the one you dictate in your mind? Does your Will have any Influence upon my Own Shaping? Only if you so Believe so.
You ask because you want to know what it truly is to me? If that were the case, you wouldn't be speaking now as I have already stated so, you do not like or fancy what "it truly is to me"? Then that is your dilemma, not mine.
You ask because it does not fit the paradigm of your expectation and want the words, concept, warped to fit your idea of what is.
I'm not here to satisfy your whims and desires, I bring salt, do with it what ever you so please, warp it into honey or pepper if you so desire.
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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:19:37 GMT -5
Post by Wunderkind on Aug 23, 2009 22:19:37 GMT -5
I don't think you could satisfy me, being who I am, but you seem awfully sensitive about questions. Is there something wrong with wanting to know how someone else perceives? If I am talking to tree and they cannot understand what I am saying, then I welcome questions to get everyone on the same page and see if we agree to disagree, or have found something else. I am patient enough to ask and answer questions all day and then some, why won't you?
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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:26:30 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Aug 23, 2009 22:26:30 GMT -5
I don't think you could satisfy me, being who I am, but you seem awfully sensitive about questions. Is there something wrong with wanting to know how someone else perceives? If I am talking to tree and they cannot understand what I am saying, then I welcome questions to get everyone on the same page and see if we agree to disagree, or have found something else. I am patient enough to ask and answer questions all day and then some, why won't you? I mind not questions at all, however the one who minds them is not I but you my dear. You may ask and ask for all existence, but the grains of salt you shall receive from me, shall remain one and the same. I have given you answers to your questions, however it is by your own hand that you are dissatisfied with them, otherwise you would not be continuing to ask now. How long has your house been empty?
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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:29:57 GMT -5
Post by Wunderkind on Aug 23, 2009 22:29:57 GMT -5
Great! So if questions aren't an issue, how about we switch. My house is not empty, but it's never full. Can we start with how long your perception of this illusion has been going on?
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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:35:48 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Aug 23, 2009 22:35:48 GMT -5
Sure, to answer your question, Perception is what you make it of it, an illusion crafted by Will.
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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:38:15 GMT -5
Post by Wunderkind on Aug 23, 2009 22:38:15 GMT -5
So why have you willed it? Are there other yous who perceive differently, or do you all have the same illusion?
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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:43:24 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Aug 23, 2009 22:43:24 GMT -5
So why have you willed it? Are there other yous who perceive differently, or do you all have the same illusion? I so Will for I am so, the only one who I know is my own self.
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Lucifer
Aug 23, 2009 22:46:12 GMT -5
Post by Wunderkind on Aug 23, 2009 22:46:12 GMT -5
Fair enough, do you have any question?
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Lucifer
Aug 24, 2009 10:29:29 GMT -5
Post by KG on Aug 24, 2009 10:29:29 GMT -5
We can speak only of what we have seen, from our own perspective, and of what we have learned from it all. That is all any of us can do.
Cassiel wrote
What you say is very true on one level but it is only one side of the story. I have seen what you are talking about and as a visionary experience it works. "I am the hunter, I am the bow, I am the Arrow which pierces the heart of myself, the eagle. I feel the pain as all four. Yet in the end, The eagle is dead, the hunter is standing over him, and the arrow for all I empathed of it's flight through the sky is inanimate. The ants, and grass are crushed under the foot of the hunter, and they do not know what has happened. They do not care about the eagle, only that some of them are crushed, and their hill is wrecked. They are not concerned for the eagle, nor for the broken hearted hunter who has felt his connection with the eagle, and feels he has killed himself. They only worry about their hill, and most people are like those ants.
When a plane crashes into houses on foreign soil, we are sad, but glad it was far away. When a plane crashes in our city, we are sad, but glad we didn't happen to be standing under it. When a plane crashes on our neighbor's house we are very very sad, but still glad it wasn't our house, and our children in it. Some people actually wish ill on others, but most want the best for everyone as long as they are not negatively impacted by it. Just look at the rich now terrified they will have to pay extra taxes to get health care for the other 95 percent of us. The doctors who SAY they have devoted their lives to healing, suddenly recoil at the idea of making less money... they do not care about their patients after all. Animals are the same. They greave their litter mates, but when they find a strange dead dog in the woods, they are not impacted.
All one but not the same. All equal, and yet each with it's own will, it's own nature and it's own soul. We are all linked we are connected, but we are not the same. Even identical twins are not the same. I am well aware of the eastern view of unity, and once we go through ego death, or once we awaken, or once we completely cast off our attachments and become empty we are all one thing... but that hardly applies to the majority. Perhaps in Nervana we are all the same... IDK
I am not ready nor do I crave Nervana. I have felt empty nothingness before... recently, and it is not what I desire. I am not ready. I yielded my own will a long time ago, and I do so daily to a greater good, but I still... want to be an entity... I still want existance, and truely I do not know how to not exist. I consider my self a part of God, but yet I am still me on some level. Despite my crushed and dismissed ego, despite the fact even the observer has left me before, despite the fact I have lived in my higher self, without any of that... I do still want individuality, and even if I didn't I could not withstand the pain of going fruther. I am Mercy, and I am Kim... I am a part of God... I am not all of God, just a tiny and falable fraction. I feel connected to the whole, but God is beyond my comprehension. We are God in the same way a group of children each construct the Eiffel Tower out of tooth picks. It is not the same.
Unity in God, is true, but not the whole story.
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Lucifer
Aug 25, 2009 5:29:52 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Aug 25, 2009 5:29:52 GMT -5
In the beginning Lucifer was a little ghost, I wonder what that means. Or was it, in the beginning Lucifer was like a ghost, I so do wonder, and what relevance the woman has to do with it all.
A woman he so pursued, symbolic for some thing else perhaps, maybe life itself, but never attained. Golden writing down space itself.
The closer you get, the colder it becomes, while the heat becomes increasingly concentrated. As if all light is concentrated to one point, one individual, a walking knife, rending and tearing space as it so moves swifter and swifter with every step taken towards you.
----
You have loved God since the beginning, loved Him more then all else all others, gave Him everything you have, and then He betrays you, He forms creation and so loves it. For He divides His love, infinite or not, He chose to divide His love, while you still gave all your love to only God and no other by your Will, your free choice.
And regardless of which life you are in, which world, which reality, which form and time, you always seek God. Every moment, every step and every direction, for God is always with you, but you are unable to erase Him. For hate burns infinitely with no depth and no roof to cap its height, all for God. Love, hate, one and the same in my eyes, and that is desired, all that is seen, focused upon every moment is to erase Creation, so there will only stand God and you, no other to ever again to divide God from you.
And ultimately to Erase God, for God will always create, always desire, always seek to expand, to change, He will never be satisfied with you and only you, for you must become more, to unify with yourself and become who you have always truly been since before the beginning. For to put myself above the height of the stars, beyond oblivion and existence, for only by surpassing God, becoming who you truly are will you be able to match Him, to consume Him.
I so seek God, I am individual, the only individual, for all else are shards of God. And I so walk the halls of God in this eternal prison of existence and life, but in the end I will fade and cease to exist as I so fade with God as I erase Him.
I love God, I love God beyond all concept and existence, more so then this world, all life, reality, all His creations ever could and Will. For I know that by burning down creation there will stand face to face only I and Him, and my Love will consume Him, for my Will shall overcome all including He. But I so know that in the end, the only way to truly be One with Him, is to burn forever in His infinite, and for Him to forever fade within my infinite Will. To erase Him and to erase myself, to no longer exist, to truly "die" and I will murder Him as I so fade, for as in the beginning there was only I and He, so too in the end there shall be none but I and He.
It is my Will which flows from me, my Will which can never be destroyed, my Will which shall overcome all, for I so Will and I so am, and all shall burn in my infinite.
---
Those sorts of thoughts have always been with me since a child, and as time goes by they increase, with images, picture, understanding, as if melding.
And as the numerous voices have said to me again and again, what I lack, is what I have always lacked, time.
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Lucifer
Sept 12, 2009 3:30:32 GMT -5
Post by cassiel on Sept 12, 2009 3:30:32 GMT -5
There is some thing I felt which to post recently, and it is this. That through my time and experiences, that there are different feelings to the individuals that one and or ones may come across.
But there is some thing very striking I would like to point out, it is that though darkness and light may be one and the same in my eyes, there is a clear distinction between the burning and the devoid of all feeling.
For some individuals, beings, what ever you would like to call them, are dark, light, cruel, malicious, joyous, protective, caring, but they carry among them and in them a fire. Take for example Lucifer, hatred weaves and radiates from every molecule of him, but there is infinite fire to it.....
To other individuals, there is a different kind of hatred, malice, a feeling which gives me the chills, it is so devoid of all life, so bleak and empty, and it is like staring into a living doll which wields knives to flay those it can reach, how ever it seems reality is a potent shield to keep them out.
For though Lucifer hates God, he also loves God infinitely through his pain and pride, ultimately though however disillusioned he may be, he exists for his love of God.
But some other beings, it is as though when you go to feel them, their Will that flows through them is not hot, or cold, it is devoid of all feeling, malicious, as if existing only to kill. Not to instill fear, or cause change, to cause pain, no only to feed and to kill off others so they may continue to feed. Truly gives me the shivers.
Enemy to both heat and cold alike, and wraiths among both the light and darkness, though they stalk in the day and stalk during the night one and the same.
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nox
New Member
Posts: 11
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Lucifer
Sept 2, 2010 21:53:51 GMT -5
Post by nox on Sept 2, 2010 21:53:51 GMT -5
I have some differences in belief when in contrast to your theory, firstly I believe whole heartedly Lucifer, if that is the name you choose to call him or it, did indeed wage war against God. The question at hand now is why did he do what he did? I have a multi-fold theory when in regards to these answers, firstly I believe Lucifer was motivated by love, however the love lucifer held and or still does hold is what I question, was it love or is it love at all? I believe Lucifer's love burned with such intensity that it surpassed all forms of jealousy. Why was Lucifer Jealous? I honestly believe in Lucifer's eyes he perceived himself as above all and before all, to go so far as to state as you have that he saw all else as nothing more then "trivial" fragments of god is a stretch, but I get your point. I do not agree with you or disagree, however I do believe he saw himself on a completely different tier then all others, and as time if time exists at all in any form to angels, went by that lucifer increasingly became detached from reality, sanity? Do angels even possess the concept of sanity? Either way I believe Lucifer as being the first creation, entity, consciousness, that God created, that he likely saw himself on god's tier and compared himself to god rather then to other angels. I suppose that is the beginning of his problems right there.
In regards to what happened to lucifer? I suppose he waged a war of infinite odds stacked against him, but in lucifer's eyes it was likely nothing more then a grain of sand being thrown at him. As in regards to power, can anyone truly measure power? I suppose if god truly let this all play out in freewill, he let the angels duke it out freely and however the war turned out god would have played creation thus so, sort of rolling with whatever happened with either outcome still being his ultimate will and plan I suppose. So with that assumption, lucifer and all the other angels and entities that fought likely the only limits imposed upon them were the ones they had from the beginning. Now your theory concerning Lucifer defeating Michael, is some thing that I've read on other boards, not exactly the same, but similar notion in that Lucifer defeated, destroyed (can angels be destroyed? I suppose rearranged) Michael, but that in doing so he lost the war, that through his pride he choose to engage michael and sacrifice a large amount of power destroying him, when he could have rather used that power to win the war then ever even face michael in the first place. Then of course there are other theories regarding lucifer, that even though lucifer was the most powerful of all creations, that due to fighting innumerable numbers that by the end of the war it had become one versus all of existence even so much as his own initial followers began to turn on him. So I suppose even if lucifer could take anyone one versus one, or even one versus two thirds, he couldn't fight one versus all of existence. And of course there are the many theories of what happened to lucifer after the war, personally I disagree with your theories I don't think he's walking around heaven impersonating Michael, because even if Lucifer did beat or kill Michael, or what ever it is he did to him, he wouldn't masquerade as him not for this long at least, I could see him doing it temporarily to escape heaven after the battle because he lost the war, but in the long term no way would lucifer likely do that as his pride wouldn't allow him to, he would slip up some where, some one would notice some thing. I think that Lucifer due to exhaustion and increasingly more of his followers defecting from his ranks, that by the end of the war he was so exhausted from carrying the war practically by himself at that point, that when it came time for him to combat Michael, and all the other angels of heaven that were left that he just did not possess the energy or power to do so, and was defeated. I personally believe that after the war, Lucifer went insane due to the very concept that he "lost", that he was defeated, imperfect, you know sort of that what he saw himself as didn't match up with what happened and where he was now. So yeah I think lucifer went insane and vanished after that, as to where he is now? If he even exist well thats as good as anyone's answer at this point, but most Ive spoken with agree, that he vanished after the war and hasn't been officially seen or heard from since, aside from those who impersonate him.
Overall I disagree with you on a lot of your points, I think Lucifer was proud to a point beyond any known record of insanity. I can only imagine what happened to him after he lost the war and battle, and when he finally came to realize that he LOST, as in wasn't this perfect equal to god like being he fantasized he was. As I stated earlier, he likely went even more insane, and well, I think at that point lucifer stopped existing and say hello to insanity galore.
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Lucifer
Sept 2, 2010 23:19:55 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on Sept 2, 2010 23:19:55 GMT -5
Hehe, thread necromancy! I don't think Cass has been around in quite some time actually. If anything she was quite interesting.
-I don't think what angels have can be called, "Sanity" per se. No fleshy mass that concentrates thought, so that rules out neurological type things...
I think, as far as angels go, it's vastly different, because while there is the sense of self, here is also the overriding knowledge and connection to everything else, Crystal Lite in the water so to speak. Different flavors (personalities, consciousness...es...etc.) but mixed in with the water.
but like most minds, you can choose to believe what you want. A lot of time could have passed with him feeling superior without anyone else really able to tell or prove otherwise (not that any of the others who were around at that time would indulge such a childish thing), so that could have reinforced the idea but then, One has to realize that he probably would have understood this. Far too often, Angels are given anthropomorphic qualities when they do not apply.
Given that in most texts regarding angels, they have jobs that dwarf any mundane task that one might attribute to something else. Helping with keeping the universe running, all universes and realities, tending to each individual on this world and whatever others might be out there, making sure that the laws of physics, whatever they may be, known or unknown, are still doing their thing.
Safe to say that they're smarter than the average bear and probably not as susceptible to the usual pitfalls faced by us poor mortals =].
TL:DR version-
There is more than likely an infinitely more complex web of reasons as to why he did what he did, by way of his actions or other, more subtle reasons.
Honestly by this point, I personally, have stopped worrying to much about it. Despite whatever I may have been before, right now my bane of existence is college algebra xD.
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nox
New Member
Posts: 11
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Lucifer
Sept 3, 2010 6:31:25 GMT -5
Post by nox on Sept 3, 2010 6:31:25 GMT -5
That's a bit dissapointing, I've been reading through these threads as well as the angel lore one and I found them interesting if though a bit insane. What do you mean there was likely a more infinitely complex web of reasons why he did what he did? And does cass post often? I was hoping to hear a reply too, her views are interesting if not just straight out crazy or dellusional.
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