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Angels
May 14, 2007 19:31:52 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on May 14, 2007 19:31:52 GMT -5
Even if an Archangel falls, they remain an Archangel, just not of the station they once had... so like if an Angel becomes an Archangel, its because he has the ability and the power to become one, or others are born Archangels, so while it is something of a title, its also something of a seperate choir in itself hence why you have "Archangel" as one of the choirs stated (Seraphim, Cherubim, Powers, etc.).
Archangels can be demoted though, at least in title, but that wouldn't change the fact that they are Archangels. Like Lucifer/Satan. He was an Archangel before his fall, but when he fell, he still managed to hold on to his power with a few restrictions he was still an "archangel". I think he was also a Seraph. Some list him as a Cherub though, depends on who you ask.
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Angels
May 14, 2007 19:55:00 GMT -5
Post by ~Sephity~ on May 14, 2007 19:55:00 GMT -5
I really want to meet Lucifer. To talk to him...y'know?
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Angels
May 14, 2007 20:55:27 GMT -5
Post by KG on May 14, 2007 20:55:27 GMT -5
So that explains why my high powered fallen Archangel is so big, and strong! LOL I've never seen anything like him, as far as his size... I thought the others were big, but this guy... But is size always an indication of power in angels? I mean it is true in his case I guess, but in general I've known some tough little angels too. (Not that any of them are all that little, but I mean smaller than some of the others) This guy is so happy and glowing all the time, it is hard to imagine his former reputation.
Are you saying that the power of an Archangel is due to personal growth, and that any angel could potentially grow... or develop into the equivilant of an Archangel? If so that is very interesting.
Lucifer is a specific being, but the word Satan is more generic. It mearly means adversary, accuser, etc. From what I have been reading in the Gnostic texts I started to compare various bible passages, and it seems clear to me that the word Satan is used to describe many entities. Including the Demurge, who is a fallen Aeon, and any number of demons, the anti-christ or anyone else who rises up in opposition, or undermines the work of heaven.
As for the specific being Lucifer... Has anyone actually seen Lucifer? I am begining to wonder what ever happened to him. I know he probably has others to do his bidding, but I have not been able to link the current neg. activity to him at all. If he were involved I would think his involvement would eventually become apparent, but really what I have seen lately seems strangely unrelated to that ledgendary Lucifer.
The Demons and Devils I have seen around seem just as annoyed and perplexed by the way things are going in this world, and the astral currently, as I am. I know there are other powers directly behind this darkness we have been fighting, and those don't seem to know anything about Lucifer, and from what I have seen they attack all sides pretty much equally, being just as much a plague to hell as heaven.
I was just wondering if anyone knows what Lucifer's been up to?
I'd settle for just knowing if he is still there. I guess it sounds really sappy that I am worried about Lucifer, and honestly that isn't it, so much as wondering if he is absent, and if so... why. I am wondering if this dark stuff is here because he isn't... I know that is an odd conclusion, and I don't have any hard evidence to support it, but it seems to be what I am thinking.
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Angels
May 14, 2007 23:33:27 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on May 14, 2007 23:33:27 GMT -5
Angels can grow and continue to learn i suppose, yes - Angels by nature are born with perfect understanding of how things are, however being as how some angels are closer to the material than to the not so material, that doesn't mean they know *everything* so that means there are things that can be learned, or things that they knew about before but never quite understood, become clearer and as things become clearer... 2+2=4 kind of stuff (not in difficulty but i mean like, one thing leads to another...)
as for the satan thing, I was just putting that in there because some say Satan is a seperate entity or some just call the same being different names so i suppose its whatever floats your boat. The being im referring to was the one that was cast out for his hubris which in itself is a negative trait but for the most part, its the things he was driven to do, but in either case... Lucifer has always been behind the scenes - he was first born of the angels and by all accounts older than most beings which for one made him privvy to the knowledge gained from such years, not to mention having been God's favored which opened up all sorts of doors for progression.
I honestly think that the reason some think he's lost or hidden or not so bad is because he is biding his time. He's never been stupid, nor impulsive except when he's flying into a rage. Given his tendency towards manipulation and his skill with it, I would not be surprised. We are talking about someone who might as well have been an Aeon. He was always spoken about in superlatives heh. It kind of sounds like im praising him but in the end, it doesn't do anybody any good to underestimate his influence.
As for size = power... I dunno O.O depends on the preference i guess. Metatron (or Azrael according to Islamic tradition cant remember which) is said to have one foot in one of the heavens, and his other foot in another heaven so one can only imagine.
And to wanting to talk to him O.o...why? lol. He hates anyone and everything, i couldn't imagine that conversation going *too* well...
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Angels
May 15, 2007 5:12:20 GMT -5
Post by ~Sephity~ on May 15, 2007 5:12:20 GMT -5
Umm...it would be interesting to hear what he has to say about many topics. I was raised in a christian family. and it's annoying when you're always ONLY hearing one side of everything. and i also have just an extreme urge to talk to him.
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Angels
May 15, 2007 13:33:21 GMT -5
Post by KG on May 15, 2007 13:33:21 GMT -5
I am sure that angels grow and learn. I know Gheb once told me that when he was created they didn't expect much of him at least mentally... or at least he felt that way. He was strong, and supposed to be a fighter, but he was also smart, and that suprised them. LOL They didn't encourage him though, in the place where he was first asigned. He felt he didn't belong there. He had visions of Sophia, so he went to her, and she adopted him. I don't know a lot about Angels in other heavens, but most angels that belong with Sophia and the other mothers, are adopted, or young. Gheb was adopted, as were most of our angels. Gheb grew and florished under Sophia, but he is very modest about his angel powers. I really know very little about his capabilities. I do know that my recently converted dark wings were not very strong at all... mostly because they had been renegade, and had no heavenly power source. They grew rapidly in strength once they came under our chain of energy.
It seems like spiritual energy is a lot like physical energy. Some people know how to generate and channel it, but others don't. There are only a few ways to make energy. The best is to channel God's energy, but fallens are cut off from that, not so much because they can't but because they won't due to bitterness. Another way it to generate it within your heart by interaction with another entity. Love... I guess you would say, but it is an interaction between two powers, which due to a sort of spiritual exchange grows more power, by rapid exchange, forming a circular pattern, which increases and magnifies the energy. A third way of getting positive energy is to be fed by a positive entity, who is still on the God chain of command, but filters and generates energy for the person who needs it. An example of that in the physical world would be faith healing. It involves someone willingly feeding another entity energy. There is positive and negative energy... and the first three are sources of positive energy.
Worship fits somewhere between positive and negative, but in general the worship of a group of people towards an entity feeds them energy. The quality of the energy depends on the type of worship, the quality of energy the people have, and the entity being worshiped. When one worships God, or even just adoring someone who is part of the picture of God, like Mary or Jesus or angels, one is introduced into a chain of that, so that is an exchange. Just like the one on one love energy thing between two entities. When one worships someone who is unworthy of that worship, through negative acts, and negative energy... like the post where Legion explained the human sacrifice energy... well torture gives off a very negative energy, which is opposite of love energy. Positive entities will not enjoy that energy, and will move away from it, but negative entities crave it, and will come to feed.
If you think about things like the spanish inquisition, the witch trials, the crusades, and etc. in that light, it is easy to see that something very negative was feeding on that form of 'worship' that they were tricked into doing. It was agging them on, and that is the entity I refer to as Demurge... and he is at least in the Gnostic texts considered a Satan... Demurge was a fallen, or at least falling Aeon. It took a long time for him to completely fall though. He isn't repelled from ordinary positive energy like true negs. He can withstand a little of it, in order to pervert it into something he can use. If the source of power is very strong though he will be repelled, but it takes a whole lot... like the ledgendary Sophian crown of Light, working at full power, repells him. A strong Godly heart chakra repels him, but these things have to stay open and pumping hard to repel Demurge.
There are many entities who enjoy negative energy... sometimes fallens learn to feed on it, and that is what makes them truely fallen. Other fallens refuse to feed on the negative energy, and they just get weaker, until they find a source of positive energy again.
Some entities though, prefer to feed on negative energy. It seems to be addictive, so that once they start feeding on that, they can't stand the positive energy anymore. (Having both positive and negative energies is somehow counter productive, and most spiritual entities know that, though incarnate humans are commonly doomed to have a little of each... as far as their lower selves.) Anyway malevolent entities don't want positive energy. Positive energy must be used for good. Positive energy makes you feel good... but negative energy makes positive entities feel sick, and negative entities can't stand positive energy for the same reason. The lower the level the more vernerable they are to being repelled by positive energy. Very low level negs can be chased away by simply painting your room yellow, and having sunny pictures on the wall. A neg. Aeon like Demurge can tolerate a good bit of God energy, in order to pervert and twist it into something he can use.
Neg energy is produced by pain, suffering and torture. It can be obtained by torturing people, or even animals. It can be had easily by just hanging around with negative or miserable humans. They just ooze the stuff, so low level negs redily attach themselves to that. Then they step up the flow of neg energy by encouraging that emotion, and surounding the person with it. Even slightly higher negs can manipulate people and situations to get more neg energy. They love to torture incarnate angelics, because that energy is especially sweet to them. In the inquisition and witch trials, they sought out Sophians, to torture. The kind of things they looked for, like literate women in an illiterate society, women with cats, women with independent religious convictions, which didnt' always mirror the church beliefs, outspoken women... it was obvious what they were targeting. There were a lot of little peculiar ear marks they looked for, which lets a Sophian know they were especially after us.
Anyway negs target different positive spiritual entities for abuse. Angels are a favorite, as are sophians, and anything else that knows how to generate a lot of power. It is like reversing the polarity of a magnet. The more powerful the magnet the stronger it is in either direction, so naturally they want a powerful positive to start throwing out an equally powerful negative energy, rather than feed on the weak. Though children are also a favorite prey of theirs. Children are very powerful spiritually, just not physically, or in a societal sense... they are often powerless in the physical arena so they are both fruitful, and easy prey.
Fallens are in a sticky situtation because they need power from some source to stay strong. They are angry at their normal chain of command, and feel cut off from it, so they try to find someone to feed them, or exchange with them. If they can't find energy in an honest way, they eventually learn to use negative energy. Some start right away as a matter of course, but eventually most will develop a neg. energy addiction, if they don't re-align with heaven in some way.
Negative energy addiction can be cured, completely by re-aligning with sympathetic groups like the mothers. The nature of an angel is restored to its former glory, and all the neg energy is removed, and along with it, the desire to feed on that.
I went off into left field to ramble a while, but for some reason that needed to be explained.
Yes, I would assume he isn't stupid, but the lower negs are... and I was under the impression many of the lower negs work for him. Their energy is very different from Demurge. Fallen Angel energy is different from Demurge. It is like the difference between Chuck Manson, and G.W. Bush. (Sorry about the political reference. If you don't agree on the character of these people, just try to see what I am saying based on someone you know.)
Chuck might have been a fallen angel... Deep down Chuck could have been a good person, and in many ways he was, but he was traumatized. He became angry and stired up within himself. He became a rebellious leader, with spiritual power, but his anger and frustration led him to want to strike out against society. Negative emotions lead to contamination of his energy with neg. forces. He sought to fight back, and ended up taking lives. He lost sight of the fact it was wrong, because he was angry, and he had a cause against the standing authority, and the powerful wealthy consumers who fed the system.
Bush on the other hand isn't traumatized. He is more like the Demurge. He has a different idea of how it is supposed to be. He doesn't care who he kills to change it, because he has no compassion for anyone. He feels hate for his fellow man, not because he is powerless, but because he is powerful. He is leader of the free world, and I believe that when Jesus said Satan was lord of this world, he was refering to Demurge not Lucifer. Demurge is the one actively running this planet, and always has been. He, like G.W. seems to be easily confused with God, and he encourages that confusion. Unlike God though, he is hateful, vindictive, and wants to create a lot of suffering. He doesn't feed on neg energy out of necessity. He does so out of greed, and desire for more power and wealth. He doesn't rebel from God, he thinks he is God.
Demurge never acknowledged God as the other aeons do. He liked to impersonate God, and tell would be prophets to do horrible things. He doesn't rebel against religions, or flee from religious people. Instead he tries instead to manipulate the message, to change it to something which is hateful, vindictive, and torturous. There is no religion in the world that Demurge hasn't had his fingers in, and no political system on earth he hasn't tainted with his methods. He has a finger in everybody's pie. No matter how much people hate the demurge in someone else, they will pick a version of his teachings up for their side to combat him. For example Muslim VS Baptist. Both movements are contaminated by Demurgian predjudice, hatred, and self righteous wrath. They hate each other, but they both have the same misconceptions.
So you knew him... before? That is cool. I know he was the favorite, and also that he himself was being manipulated or so I am told. Anyway, it seems like an awful lot of fallens are switiching sides lately, and I was wondering what is happening to his power base. I would expect him to be upset, but he doesn't seem to be even interested. The mothers expected some resistance to this, and we have gotten none from anything that seems... er... "satanic" or "luciferian." I haven't gotten any sense that he is ticked off by their deserting him at all. Why would he be OK with that?
As for meeting Lucifer Sephity, I agree with Xav, it probably isn't a good idea. Also in light of the way things are going, it seems kind of doubtful that you would be able to find him. What you would probably get is some half baked low level demon trying to impersonate him. That is the most I have ever seen in all my years anyway. I suppose Lucifer exists, but you couldn't prove it by me. I have never seen him. I have seen one of his former immediate subordinates. He's impressive, but he's working for us now. Lucifer apparently doesn't care.
Could it be that the fallens consider the activities of the Demurge and his new alies to be so much of a threat that they are willing to at least burry the hatchet long enough for us both to get that situation under control? I have no current beef with Lucifer apparently, so I am not wanting to stir any trouble with him... but I am curious as to why he is not doing anything right now.
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Angels
May 15, 2007 21:43:25 GMT -5
Post by Xavrael on May 15, 2007 21:43:25 GMT -5
Some speculate this - I've run into a few people who seem to think this, or at least think it a possibility.
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Angels
May 16, 2007 9:15:54 GMT -5
Post by ~Sephity~ on May 16, 2007 9:15:54 GMT -5
It would makes sense wouldn't it?
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Angels
May 16, 2007 9:33:26 GMT -5
Post by KG on May 16, 2007 9:33:26 GMT -5
IT would make sense. Especially since from what I understand Lucifer's quarrel was mostly with the Demurge to start with. Sophia has always had a Feud with the Demurge also. I guess warring with the Demurge, and being chased all over the earth by him, is the main thing Sophia is famous for. That and being the mother of Christ.
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Angels
May 16, 2007 10:22:39 GMT -5
Post by ~Sephity~ on May 16, 2007 10:22:39 GMT -5
So lucifer can't be all that bad of a dude, if his only real beef was with the Demurge and not with the 'creator'.
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Angels
May 16, 2007 16:23:17 GMT -5
Post by stonerwolf on May 16, 2007 16:23:17 GMT -5
so we could have been wrong to deny lucifer the use of truth, or at least to let him find out what he wanted.
well for all i know, and from all i know, all WE know, lucifer was only trying to stop the demurge from getting out of control.
DO we KNOW what he was trying to do?
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Angels
May 16, 2007 19:57:39 GMT -5
Post by ~Sephity~ on May 16, 2007 19:57:39 GMT -5
Not really. DO we really know what ANYONE does?
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Angels
May 17, 2007 1:53:36 GMT -5
Post by KG on May 17, 2007 1:53:36 GMT -5
Lucifer declared war on all heaven. Though he was probably misled, and maybe coerced, or tricked into it, it is still a fairly serious thing... then after he wasn't sorry, he was still ticked off, and the way I understand it, he is still ticked off... but as I said, no one has talked to him... in long time. If he is considering reconciliation, it would only be because he hates the demurge more than us, not because he likes us.
I don't know for sure what he is trying to do, but if we think about his position, we can see the most likely motivation. His worst enemy Demurge, and another moderate enemy of his (us Sophians) are fighting. They have been fighting for eons, but the battle has picked up, and grown very heated, because his moderate enemy has picked up a lot of power, and his worst enemy has been forced to learn some new tricks... which are pretty damned freaky... despite the fact that overall he has lost a lot of power recently. He has also aquired new alies who are raiding his low level entities for captives to use a soldiers against his moderate enemy. The other enemy is currently leaving him alone, but some of his forces are switching sides to help in the war effort... because so far Lucifer's forces are only on the defensive a little, and don't seem to be mounting any kind of major attack on anyone... at least not that I know of. I know they don't seem to be attacking us.
Now he has three options... attack his worst enemy full force, attack his moderate enemy, or just lay low... fend off attacks with minimal effort, and let us fight it out, which logically should weaken both sides. When it is over, he might just take us on... or he might let it slide since we aren't the ones attacking him... I would go into speculation over what happens if we loose, but I never consider that...
The other possibility is that his forces are weak for some reason, and that is why he isn't agressively persuing some sort of interest in the war. I do know he's had a lot of deserters, mostly because he isn't actively involved, and many of his people want to fight the Demurge. A lot of things that used to be bitter towards us arent' any more. At least they aren't bitter towards Sophia, or the other mothers. They may still harbor other grudges... other than Demurge. I also heard that there have been attempts by Demurge to indirectly or directly recruit from his forces, and among other negs... but I don't think they are having a lot of luck... some though. I wonder if the deserters are enough to weaken him, or if the attacks are.
Or maybe he is just becoming more moderate?
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Angels
May 22, 2007 18:00:03 GMT -5
Post by Shadow of Light on May 22, 2007 18:00:03 GMT -5
Hey all, sorry for my absense, life has been a bit hectic again. Anyways, most records do agree lucifer was the first created. Now although it's a long shot certain people see what lucifer did as a similiar type of sacrifice that jesus made. He gave up everything in order to give creation the one thing in his opinion might of been lacking, choice and polarity. It's a strange theory but plausible as well. Similarities go as far as calling Lucifer the lightbringer and Jesus the light. As if lucifer was Jesus' predecessor. Anyways, most of the documentation I've seen shows lucifer at most in a backseat role letting the princes of hell and the various other beings deal with day to day business and only once in a long time actually doing anything to interfere. Either way though, I don't see him as good nor evil. Merely a being living out his existance in the way he prefers, un-noticed and in teh shadows, perhaps guiding events when needed and confirming his existance whenever belief in him fades, but more than that no, but mst records put him as the pinicle in creation. As near to perfection as any being could be, but who knows. This is just from my research and knowledge and as such it may be flawed. I just see him as a being who got a really bad reputation but doesn't let it affect him all too much.
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Angels
May 22, 2007 19:42:12 GMT -5
Post by ~Sephity~ on May 22, 2007 19:42:12 GMT -5
I'd have to go with this one...i like this one a lot...It does make since that without Lucifer rebelling, sin wouldn't exist. ADam and eve would've never eatin' the fruit, and jesus wouldn't have died on a cross.
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