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Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jun 4, 2009 11:00:43 GMT -5
These are a few lines from an author, John Scalzi from his blog whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they’re what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there’s not an $800 car in America that’s worth a damn. Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away. Being poor is living next to the freeway.Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn’t mind when you ask for help. Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house. Being poor is knowing you can’t leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around. Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn’t have make dinner tonight because you’re not hungry anyway. Being poor is Goodwill underwear. Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal. Being poor is relying on people who don’t give a damn about you. Being poor is the police busting into the apartment right next to yours. Being poor is not talking to that girl because she’ll probably just laugh at your clothes. Being poor is hoping you’ll be invited for dinner. Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it. Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk. Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap. Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor. Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere. Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually stupid. Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually lazy. Being poor is never buying anything someone else hasn’t bought first. Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that’s two extra packages for every dollar. Being poor is having to live with choices you didn’t know you made when you were 14 years old. Being poor is getting tired of people wanting you to be grateful. Being poor is knowing you’re being judged. Being poor is checking the coin return slot of every soda machine you go by. Being poor is deciding that it’s all right to base a relationship on shelter. Being poor is knowing you really shouldn’t spend that buck on a Lotto ticket. Being poor is hoping the register lady will spot you the dime. Being poor is a lumpy futon bed. Being poor is knowing where the shelter is. Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so. Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor. Being poor is seeing how few options you have. Being poor is running in place. Being poor is people wondering why you didn’t leave. For the rest of the post. Look at the link to his blog. As I said before, I couldn't put it any better myself, except to add one to it. Being poor is knowing that you will forever be poor, because that's how the world works. Being poor is sitting in front of a laptop that does not belong to you and praying that the owner doesn't need it for anything for the next 10 minutes. Being poor is waiting for someone to drop their ticket at the theater and not pick it up so you can forget about being poor for the next two and a half hours. Being poor is not having enough money to put gas in your $800 car so you can drive to school. Being poor is scheduling two hours before you go to sleep and after you wake up for being depressed. I think I'm done venting for now. I'll probably add to this, or I might forget about it. I pray it's the latter.
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Post by stonerwolf on Jun 4, 2009 12:48:12 GMT -5
those arent being poor. those are being broke. being poor would be suicide. being poor would be joining the military because you have no care one way or the other what happens to you, being poor is allowing monetary losses and obsticals prevent you from living rich.
Poor isnt about money, it is about spirit, and the poverty stricken people of this world are richer than the richest banker, who is poorer than the lowly stray dog.
Being poor isnt about not having things, its about not appreciating what you DO have.
I may be poor in finances, but i am over abundantly rich in spirit.
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Post by KG on Jun 4, 2009 13:43:09 GMT -5
It's funny because it is true. LOL I think we all can relate. I could add to it myself... hasn't been that long.
Being poor/broke is envying your 1976 Jeep cause it smokes more than you can afford to.
Being poor/broke is having everyone stare at you when you get out of your smoking 76 jeep with your two ragamuffin kids, and try to walk to the grocery store despite the fact your shoes are falling apart.
Being poor/broke is when your tire tool, has a special place where the head hangs out of the hole in the fender well for easy access.
Being poor/broke is waking up freezing, and then calling the oil company and begging for a delivery you can't pay for, when you still haven't paid for the last delivery.
Being poor/broke is listening to the phone ring 30 times a day, and not answering it cause you have over a dozen collection agencies calling.
Being poor/broke is finally answering that phone, and explaining your life in detail to the guy, both of you cry and he says he won't bother you again. It doesn't matter cause the others will still call. Still it was nice to have someone to talk to.
Being poor/broke is when everyone thinks of you when they deside to get rid of their old worn out sofa, and you always take it, cause it is always better than the one you have.
Here are some older ones from my single days.
Being broke is finding out the hot dog vender believes you owe him sex for giving you a free hotdog. (Maybe it is an old greek custom)
Being broke is going to a bar broke and hoping someone buys you a beer.
Being broke is dating for food, and not eating any other time.
Being poor is dating above your class, and the look your date's mothers always get as they offer you a glass of the cheepest table wine in their house.
Overall though, being poor or broke, is a thousand times worse when you are responsible for the welfare of others. It is kind of funny as long as you are only worrying about yourself. It's easy to live alone anywhere. Even sleeping in the woods or on the street is no biggy it is kind of like an adventure. Being hungry even is not a biggy. You can comfort yourself with the fact that you can go 30 days w/o food as long as you have water and you'll survive it. You are an adult. Watching your kid's go hungry... something I have never had to do thank God, is not acceptable at all. If you are single and they cut your power off in the house no biggy... any survivalist would realize that electricity is not necessary, however it is not acceptable to child welfare workers. In general you have to have your shit together before you even think of marriage or procreating.
And unfortuantely in the real world, being responsible for a family is about money or some other work connected measure of wealth. It always has been always will be. It is about work, and making an effort, way above what you feel like you can do, till your fingers bleed and sweat rolls off your back, if you have to. Sometimes it is about thinking and figuring out what to do next. You can't fail and then just sit for a couple of weeks and lick your wounds, and tell yourself it is because of society. You have to get back up and try again that same day. You have to figure out ways to save money. You have to plan and decide how to stretch your resources, supliment your income and make it work when everything in you says it is impossible. It's harder than mountain climbing sometimes. It is harder than laying down and dying. It is harder than giving up to be sure, but when you are responsible and have a family, giving up is not an option.
As for the rich, they account for less than 5 percent of the US population. Even middle class is only another 20 percent. Fully half of us are poor. 75 percent of us make less than $75,000 a year. Half of us make less than $40,000 and then you have the location variables. California and the East Coast North cost so much more to live in that they cannot buy a home even with a six figure income. The Poor and Broke in this country amount to most of us. The utterly poverty stricken are easily 30 percent of us.
Who are the top five percent? They include, the celebrities of the entertainment industy, the people(and their heirs) who started a business small and grew it into something huge, like Walmart. The people who invested their tiny nest egg and had a real tallent for picking good stocks. A certain Mr. Buffett, the richest man in the world delivered newspapers, AND worked in a grocery store plus went to school when he was only 13, and started buying and placing pen ball machines still as a kid. He went to college and became a stock broker. He was good at it. He invested his own earnings, and ended up with 37 billion dollars.
Buffett is a good example of someone who combined hard work with brains and a little luck. He wasn't born with a silver spoon, though I suspect his parents were comfortable, but he made that extra effort and it paid off.
Today's world is not an easy place. The suicide rate is up. People are getting diseases, and the stress of poverty is almost unbearable. There are a lot of people out there are not poor because they are lazy, inept, crippled, or even poor because they were born poor. It is a lot harder sure, but it still has to be survived.
In the future, maybe even the near future it may NOT be about a paying job for survival. Maybe people will go back to farming, marketing some property or handi crafts to earn a living, or even barter, but it will still be about hard work and enginuity. Sometimes you have to figure out HOW to make it work, and your mind has to be sharp to those challenges. In general the less money you have the smarter you have to be to surivive.
Many rich people are rich cause they are smart and worked hard... (I am not saying that poor people don't also work hard, or that they aren't smart, but people who aren't smart and don't work hard do not stand a chance in any society) Lord knows Bill Gates ain't stupid by a long shot. In fact his facinations and passions which he no doubt enjoyed provided not only him, but other people ways to perpetuate their existance, learn, and become a lot smarter. He did something he enjoyed and wanted to do. He enabled billions of others to also enjoy something he loved, and with this tool, billions of children are educated, billions of people earn their living, billions of people enjoy their leasure time, and billions of people have easy access to information they need in their daily lives. In my opinion Mr. Gates earned every penny and that preticular story is an example of wealth as it should be earned.
I think if we look to Uncle Bill for an example, we can see the recipe for real success. He took something he loved, and he found a away to share it at a price just about everyone could afford. He benefited others in numerous ways, and enriched our society greatly. That is the moral way to make money, and no one could ever convince me there is anything wrong with that.
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Post by KG on Jun 4, 2009 16:25:36 GMT -5
Oh, But Stoner I am not disagreeing with you on the bankers. They have their own reward though... if anybody goes to hell they are definitely going. Plus terrible Karma. Did you know that the bible is just full of scriputres that say Usery will keep you from Going to heaven (Usery is a word for lending at unfair interest.) Also Jesus spoke out on Evicting poor widows, and people with Children. Bankers are children of hell... well not the little tellers, who just have a job but those folks who make the decisions, and especially the CEO's who use people's interest money, and lately tax money to award themselves huge bonus checks. I think there must be a special place in hell for those who are in charge of credit card interest. LOL
I am just saying that some rich people did get their money honestly. Not all of them by a long shot though... plus there are not really a lot of rich people out there. Most Americans are struggling, some just harder than others.
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Post by a'Lan Mandragoran on Jun 4, 2009 20:06:39 GMT -5
Not all that was about money, if you look...
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Post by stonerwolf on Jun 4, 2009 22:02:10 GMT -5
Not all that was about money, if you look... look harder? i dunno, that was all biased toward things that could be avoided if one could financially afford it. can you provide an example of one that wasnt financially directed/oriented?
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Post by Ashira Bloodmoon on Jun 5, 2009 4:33:25 GMT -5
I think it is you that need to look harder. Lan's not posting on this thread any more because he's already depressed and I'm not letting him. He wants to but I don't think it's good for him to dwell on his issues. He posted it, he felt better and now he needs to forget he posted it. If you REALLY need an example.
Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk.
There are several more. He keeps saying that no one understands what he's getting at or understanding him. Your post hit him rather hard, especial when it is rather obvious.
He posted because he's feeling down again. He posts here rather than talking to his friends or parents because his friends are just around when they need something from him, as in not really friends, and his parents, you know how they are... but whatever...
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Post by KG on Jun 5, 2009 12:41:08 GMT -5
We are always here for Lan, and each other in general. I think maybe I made it worse as well, but Stoner is in a similar situation. I am sure they are both frustrated. Many of you are looking for jobs, and I'm just working my self employment to keep from being unemployed. I am barely turning a profit if at all... but I am maintaining and hoping things get better. Thank God Bear has a job.
At any rate, what I am trying to say is that times are tough. Some of us have strikes against us just by being born who we are, where we are and in Lan's case who we live with. Still no matter what we all have to keep trying and hoping that things will get better. It is our lives and giving up isn't an option.
"It will be OK if we all just hang in there." Is that always true? IDK... but it is what we have to believe. We have to keep trying... and try not to get too upset to be effective at trying. This is not hopeless. It is just very very hard. Things just get that way sometimes. WE have to believe in ourselves.
Lan is smart!! He has been trying, and I know he feels like he's not accomplishing anything, but he is. He's going to school, and he is looking for a job. That job is only one phone call away, and you never know when you might hear from someone. He needs to keep trying, and in the mean time he's advancing his education. HE should go ahead and get his degree, and stop second guessing himself. It isnt' his fault, it is just hard to find a job... maybe he could look at self employment, even if it mowing lawns or cleaning gutters or something. Whatever he feels he could do... maybe tutoring kids? Anyway there's always something that we can do. All we have to do is think of the right course of action. IT isn't easy sometimes, but it is there. There is always one thing that we can do to make things better.
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Post by stonerwolf on Jun 5, 2009 12:57:17 GMT -5
I think it is you that need to look harder. Lan's not posting on this thread any more because he's already depressed and I'm not letting him. He wants to but I don't think it's good for him to dwell on his issues. He posted it, he felt better and now he needs to forget he posted it. If you REALLY need an example. Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk. There are several more. He keeps saying that no one understands what he's getting at or understanding him. Your post hit him rather hard, especial when it is rather obvious. He posted because he's feeling down again. He posts here rather than talking to his friends or parents because his friends are just around when they need something from him, as in not really friends, and his parents, you know how they are... but whatever... Pardon my oblivion, but i dont believe i see the correlation. I wasnt aware things were so rough on him lately either, but i doubt that would have affected my observation. and i cant help but think WHY would someone think they know something about you, by the way you walk? maybe that ISNT monetarily directed, but it still comes off that way to me, that "poor" people cant afford to be prejudiced like that, while with the well to do individual, it makes no difference if they prejudge someone - they can afford to. A poor person needs every resource they can get their hands on, including douchebags who walk funny, so we cant say anything about it, if we want their help. but THEY have free reign to say anything about the way WE walk, because we will still need their help, regardless of their attitude. Until the world can see that money is only creating more problems than it is solving, i dont think anything is going to improve what so ever. these arent the most encouraging words, but i AM trying to sa.... dont despair. I have plans to pack my backpack and hike out or bike out, if Lan needs a friend, i need his address lol
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Post by KG on Jun 6, 2009 7:58:36 GMT -5
I wish that it was true that rich people were the only predjudiced ones. Since only 5- 20 percent of people are rich by any stretch of the imaginatin, that would be very good news. LOL Poor people are predjudiced too. I know more poor/broke people who find arbetrary reasons to hate people, than not. I know lots of people who have very low or no income that are predjudiced against gays, blacks, hispanics, orientals, people with different political views, and all kinds of things. Most everyone is predjudiced in one way or the other, and yes even street people can make fun of cripples, or people who walk funny. Just cause people don't have any room to critizise others, because they are not doing well either, doesn't mean they don't critizise others.
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Post by stonerwolf on Jun 6, 2009 21:02:51 GMT -5
I wish that it was true that rich people were the only predjudiced ones. Since only 5- 20 percent of people are rich by any stretch of the imaginatin, that would be very good news. LOL Poor people are predjudiced too. I know more poor/broke people who find arbetrary reasons to hate people, than not. I know lots of people who have very low or no income that are predjudiced against gays, blacks, hispanics, orientals, people with different political views, and all kinds of things. Most everyone is predjudiced in one way or the other, and yes even street people can make fun of cripples, or people who walk funny. Just cause people don't have any room to critizise others, because they are not doing well either, doesn't mean they don't critizise others. i was merely stating that the richer you are, the less you have any need to keep that prejudice in check. a rich person being prejudiced has no repercussions, whereas a poor person could lose their job. i wasnt, at all, saying only rich are prejudiced, i was only saying that they have the resources to get away with prejudice without any serious repercussions. all i am saying is money = freedom, and that is an inherent wrong against any persons who do not or can not make any money. it is deffenitley not to say that poor people cant get away with it either, but if you consider the repercussions for if/when they get caught... compare them to the rich. the moer money you have, the easier it is to buy off what/whoever stands in your way. that's not right, not fair, and in no means beneficial to anyone but the individual hand, but let's face it: EVERYONE wants to be rich, cuz EVERYONE is misguided into truly believing we/they need money.
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Post by KG on Jun 7, 2009 19:58:49 GMT -5
If those rich people happen to be celibraties, stars, politicians, or own businesses vernerable to boycott, they have to be more careful than the average person. Most of us do not have people following us around with microphones. If I call someone a racial name, or tell some off color joke, I know it will not be on the news, for example. No one recorded it so I can always deny it. If a public figure says something offensive it will be all over the news.
Just think how many times you have seen the news make a huge deal about something someone said, when they weren't thinking about how it might be interpreted. We do not have to worry about every single word being gone over with a fine toothed comb.
If a poor person misspeaks they can usually get out of it, and if they can't and do happen to get fired, they can look for another job. Most people never find out what it was they said, and they are free to move on. Saying the wrong thing for a famous person follows them to the grave. People never forget, and whenever their name comes up it is the first thing everyone thinks about.
Being a role model of our society does have it's pricetag, and those people worry a lot more what people think that poor people do... and maybe that is part of why they are rich too. People who don't care what kind of impression they make, will have limited success in life.
Of course the freedom to be a jerk is hardly worth staving to death, loosing the respect of people who admire you, or being justifiably hated, whether we are rich or poor. I believe in doing the right thing, even if it is unpopular, but to be known for doing something wrong that you know is wrong too... well that would be a miserable feeling no matter how much or how little money you have.
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Post by KG on Jun 11, 2009 12:00:31 GMT -5
Rich people keep thier words in check because they fear loosing their income. They might have plenty of money by our standards, but eventually it would run out if they tick off the public or the wrong people. There are very few people rich enough not to care what others think, and movie stars, business owners, and politicians are among the rich. If people hate them, they will not go to their movies, buy their products or vote for them or whatever and they loose their career, and their money. In that sense anyone can get fired for predjudice, and they have so much more to loose... so far to fall.
People do need money IMO. If we did not have currency then they'd need livestock and a good garden, and lots of tools, and they'd have to trade for those some way or other, and then currency would be invented all over again. Money is just necessary.
WE have to eat, and have a warm dry place to sleep. Those things have to be earned, they aren't just given. Why aren't they just given? because many people worked to make all those things, and they want to be able to obtain the things they need in return. Everyone has to build, grow, make everything that people need to live. If someone is not making, building, growing, or at least cleaning, then others have to pick up that slack and that makes them have to work harder, to make up the difference. Money is a cupon, that's all. Cash is a cupon to prove that you traded your work, or your goods, so that you can procure what you need. Barter works the same but you have to make something to barter. Without cash it would get way too complex.
Money is not evil Stoner, it just paper. It neither thinks nor has a will of it's own. It is not by nature evil or good, any more than any inanimate object is good or bad. It can be used for ANY purpose. It can be used to feed hungry children, or to buy bombs to kill innocent children. It can be used to perpetuate one's life, and really it is the only way I know of to perpetuate life... because it is a cupon for work, and work is necessary to survive. Your survival is dependent on the work of others, so you pay them with money you earned for your own work. There is nothing evil, or sneeky or wrong in that at all. I"ve thought about it, and there just isn't anything wrong with working and earning money, then buying what you need. It is just the way it works, and the way it has always worked.
Society is neither evil nor good... and you are always so quick to say there is no good and evil, so surely you can see that society is just people living their lives. Government is their choice, and it sucks sometimes, but it's what the majority chose by free will. People make choices and the majority rules. What is so unfair about that?
Sure people within society sometimes make bad choices and do bad things, but they do a lot of good charitable things too. It is all a matter of what you CHOOSE to notice. This world is not perfect and will never be. We just have to learn to live in it, even if certain things are not our ideal.
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Post by stonerwolf on Jun 25, 2009 15:05:32 GMT -5
regardless of good or evil, there are still actions that result in suffering.
since i must suffer those actionsi will now begin forwarding it vehemently upon all others.
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Post by KG on Jun 25, 2009 23:57:06 GMT -5
Why? You have brought it all upon yourself?
It is no one's fault you refuse to get a job and think it is immoral. The rest of us know it is not. It is your own responsiblity to find another way if you reject the normal way, but you have to be responsible for yourself. You are not being responsible for yourself. You have been shifting your responsibilities to others because it is according to you, against your ethics to pay your own bills and for your own susbtainance. You may find the rest of us immoral for eating our food that we earn, and paying our bills that we earn the money for, and buying our own clothing games toys and books and other items we NEED and want, with our own hard earned money... but you had clothing, games, toys, books and other items that OTHER people spent their hard earned money for, and therefore you do not regard or appreciate them.
The only people who do not have to earn and spend their own money in this or any other society are dependent children and slaves. You are no longer young enough to be a dependent child, and you don't work hard enough to be a slave. Therefore you are responsible for yourself. You have been shuffling that responsibility off on others, but you really are an adult... and there is nothing wrong with you, that you cannot live like a grown up. Your sucking off others is just hypocracy. It isn't morals. There is nothing moral, ethical or admirable in the way you are living. It is immoral to treat your father that way. No matter how his personality might be, he is your father. He is your elder and he merits a LOT more respect than that, and your MOTHER certainly does. You could have controled your temper, but you CHOSE not to. IT was your decision!
I love you dear, but sometimes you are a thankless bastard that expects a free ride. Well apparently due to your own rude behavior you have lost all your free rides. NOW since you always TALK about being 'independent' NOW you are. You always TALK about being responsible so be responsible. You are on your own. If you suffer, it is of your own making, so as the saying goes, you made your be now lie in it.
I can't help you. I wish I could but I can't. YOU are the one who has to change, and you do HAVE to change. YOU cannot live the way you are living. You are your own biggest problem. In many ways your ideals are the source of your problem. You don't live by them, you just use them as an excuse and a crutch. You don't believe them or you'd find a way to do something about them.
It is no one's fault you have offended other people (YOUR family and friends) with your outbursts, rants, crazy talk, and destructive and violent behavior. You choose to act this way, and you choose not to do anything, therefor you get the reward of someone who is senselessly destructive, and not productive. That is simple Karma. If you produce, draw people together, treat them lovingly, and make a positive impact on the world, you get good rewards. If you cause division, strive, distruction, and hurt others, then the reward for that is negative. People will shun you and not help you if you offend and do harm to them. IT is that simple.
You told me once that part of being responsible is admiting your own guilt. You even said one should appologize and claim the blame if it is NOT your fault. I really think that might be taking it to extremes, but when something is CLEARLY a result of your actions you have to recognize cause and effect. I find your behavior towards your Father inexcusable. You were completely and totally at fault this time, and you started it. This is your doing. You are not the victim, you are the perpetrator. You are suffering because YOU could not behave like an adult. You threw a tantrum like a three year old and now you pay. Because you are not a three year old the punishment is more severe than a sound spanking, which is what you really need. Unfortunately also because you are not really a three year old, you have the capacity to do more damage, and people do not owe you an unconditional support and love, as they did when you were a child.
It is time to grow up and get a LIFE. It just is. I can't help it, and you can't stay a child forever. No one can. You have a responsiblity to yourself, and your family, and so far you have neglected that, and came up with the most outlandish excuses for not doing what you need to do. Now it is time to put that silly stuff aside and be an adult. Admit your mistakes, and move on. I know you are in a fix, but your got yourself into that fix, and you were wrong about everything. Now you must see that? I mean you aren't that stupid. Surely you can understand that you screwed up.
Everyone screws up from time to time, but this was a huge mistake. Now you pay. Cause and effect, Karma... what you did was senseless and illogical, but the effects of it were very predictable. You leave people no choice. You left your dad no choice. There was nothing else he could do, unless he was still a lot bigger than you, in which case he should have turned you over his knee and given you about ten or twenty lashes with a belt, but the days of that opportunity are gone. You are no longer small, and he is no longer bigger than you. You seriously needed it, because you were acting like a brat, but big brats end up in prison. I hope you don't so you had better straighten out.
I know this is harsh, but I am tired of you blaming everyone else for your own stubornness, and stupidity. It is pride, but you have no right to pride after your behavior. You were in the wrong totally in this situation.
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