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Post by KG on Jun 4, 2008 3:00:23 GMT -5
I'd like to ask for information on strengthening and using will. Kata and Shadow both mention using their will, but I and probably some other members of this board need more instruction in building will. and using it. I'd like more information on the application and use of will.
I guess I'd like some practical information on not being wishy washy... you know like Determination as they call it. How is it related to the kind of will to do magick... Could that be used to do everyday stuff too? Maybe if someone could tell us a bit about self dicipline and organization too.
Kim
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Post by Kata Samoes on Jun 5, 2008 2:07:28 GMT -5
I understand will, you have to realize it's comes in 3 parts: Willpower, will-doing, and living will.
Living will is your every day stuff, what can start your motivation to do something big, something to change..or just something for another. Will-doing carries that out for the long term or until your goal is met.
Willpower is the source of these two, but separate altogether. Willpower is what you work with in Magick, Faith, Practice, Prayer, Meditation and even relationships. It's what drives you further, and helps keep you in there when times get rough. Like a marriage, yeah?
So..how do you strengthen this? Find where it's lacking. DO NOT hide it from yourself, but I guarantee you it's hard to find. Once you find it, DO NOT doubt it, and DO NOT deny it. Find it, attack it (not literally), and find what motivates you. Has your motivation changed? If so why? What motivates you NOW in your Time?
This is ALWAYS a question you're going to ask, find the answer, and ask again. YOU CHANGE. The world changes. Your motivation? Will change. Your dreams and goals should not, and will be powered by another reason, another meaning.
THAT is how you strengthen your will. Inspiration and reason.
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Post by KG on Jun 6, 2008 0:36:19 GMT -5
Thank you Kata. I apprecate what you have said, but still have a lot of questions. I guess I need to start at square one on this.
Life is a catch 22. I feel like in my case I should have asked how to get control of my life back. I feel everyone in my family has a slice of my life, my home, and my very breath except me. I don't feel like I have a choice. I don't feel like I have any control over my own life. It lacks meaning. I don't feel motivated towards my small life. I admit I wanted something grander, something bigger. I am bored out of my skull. Clutter dominates my life. I hate clutter.
Overall after re-reading this, and talking to my husband a bit all this is my fault. I let people take over, and then resent it. They are just doing what they do, and I let it over ride what I am doing. They have no idea what my problem is most of the time, and if they do, then I am complaining about their compulsions. I am not a priority to myself sometimes, and I let others have their way much too easily because most of the time I don't care. The only thing I hate worse than being bothered with doing trivial tasks, is arguing about trivial things.
So what can be lacking? I have a few guesses, based on my own life experience. I mean I see a lot of problems. IT is just the solutions I am not sure of.
1. Absence of a clear plan.
2. Absence of a definate goal which you personally see as a benefit.
3. Conflicts between what you want, and what you are being asked to do.
4. Moral and ethical conflicts between what needs to be done, and your motivations overall.
5. Boredom and apathy. A sense that what you do doesn't matter anyway.
6. Lack of co-operation from others, and a sense of being bossed around, while no one else wants to help.
7. A sense that your abilities are being wasted on things that don't matter, while the greater accomplishments are being held up by these details.
8. Resistance from other people, and a desire to avoid conflict... or the knowledge that conflict solves nothing, and you will continue to get resistance no matter how much you insist.
9. Resistance within the self, like the fear of failure, fear of success quandry.
10. Doubt and guilt caused by past failures to do the same task.
11. Being overwhelmed by many small tasks, or possibly one huge one.
12. Inability to express what you want, and why clearly when you want help or at least non-interferance from others.
13. When you ask the age old selfish question, what is in it for me, and you realize you don't want anything, and you don't care two bits about any of it, if it is going to be that much trouble.
14. You want something badly that is centered around yourself, but you don't feel like you deserve it until you meet everyone else's needs completely, but everyone else's needs will never be completely satisfied at one time... so you never get to do what you want.
16. Physical and emotional problems that hold you back from doing things, like phobias, sickness, frustration and feelings of exhaustion, panic or uncertainty.
17. Inability to choose which thing to do first, and which things can wait. Also knowing the difference between things that have to be done, and things that can slide.
18. An unexplainable fuzzy feeling that creeps into your brain when you try to do something important. Like when you are trying to fill out an application, or read through the instructions on something that could help you a lot, and suddenly you can't grasp what any of it even means. You suddenly feel disinterested in the whole process, even though it was a major goal up to that moment.
19. You feel that you must take care of everything else that needs to be done, before you can move towards your real goals. You don't want to do some of the things so you never do what you want, then you feel empty.
20. Not being able to accomplish what you set out to do, though you try over and over, it just isn't happening. What then?
Once you see these things though, what can you do about them? It is like wanting the last piece of pie, and then you say... well what if someone else wants it? OR you think, I just don't feel like getting up to get the pie? Then everyone apparently felt that way. The pie is forgotten, and the last slice of pie just spoils. Life is like that... you have to get up nerve to grab the last piece, or give it to someone else. Give it to the dog if nothing else, but no, people just leave that last slice, because they don't want to be selfish. Then they end up wasting. I am wasting and yet I feel obligated to spend my time doing things I hate... and yet I lack the will to do them anymore, unless I get more fulfilment from it than I am currently getting.
Anyway, in various combinations of the above circumstances Kata, what can you do to regain your desire to motivate beyond just going through the motions, and falling fruther and fruther behind. How can you get the little details out of the way, enough to go forward with something major? How can you overcome obsticals, and stop making excuses, that seem like insurmoutable hurdles at the time? How can you get people off your back long enough to get anything done anyway? How can you tell people you want more? How can you get more out of life?
Kim
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Post by Del on Jun 7, 2008 23:47:56 GMT -5
I understand will, you have to realize it's comes in 3 parts: Willpower, will-doing, and living will. Nice concept. I haven't viewed it in this manner, though I'd probably adopt it... I'd like to add that there would be an underlying 'reason' for Willpower...that being 'Meaning'. I don't think you can have willpower without a sense of purpose...a foundation to Existentialism...the 'logos' of life.... To Kim: Look into Frrankl's Theroy on Logotherapy. He has a book called "Man's Search fo Meaning." It gives an excellent insight to his theory and more. I recommend it. Amazon.com has it for a decent price if you'd like to purchase it. What is 'my' purpose? What is my meaning? And that can change...it does change as YOU change. Yes this is true. I do also recommend building your foundaton first: what is your purpose? What is your reason/meaning/purpose? And Thank you too, Kata.
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Post by KG on Jun 8, 2008 2:58:34 GMT -5
I agree that as long as things have meaning and you think you are working towards that big purpose or goal then it is easy to stay motivated, but sometimes we have to motivate towards things that aren't part of some grand design... those are the things I have huge trouble with. I have trouble pushing for things that don't seem connected, yet without doing the little things, one is not efficient.
My Faith can move a mountain, but the millions of ant hills on my own lawn perplex my will power everytime. I feel like saying, "let the ants do as they please," but then people get ant bit... and it is all my fault. (please understand that is a metiphore, though i haven't poisoned the ants much this year either... maybe it isn't a metiphor) It is one example of those things I don't feel like asserting my will on, even over ants. It is typical of me really. I'd fight the devil himself, and not back down, but I also let the ants take over my property.
Kim
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Post by Del on Jun 8, 2008 16:51:49 GMT -5
I think, that with those things that seem so un-fun and not seemingly part of the grand design are actually part of your growth process and participation in the grand design. So it's literally taking everything in stride and finding purpose and meaning in everything. It's usually the simpliest things too - like if someone on the road does something stupid and it would rouse a react of anger out of you, instead you'd shake your head and move forward. Everything is connected Kim, they just may not be connected the way we may deem it should be. Let the ego take the back seat because it's truly supposed to follow the Spirit - that is something a lot of people have a hard time doing. It's not always about the 'I' or 'Me', it's about what needs doing so says the Spirit and we just have to learn to get used to it and re-adjust each time we go through a new phase in life. So, now you've just gota pack your weapons and push ahead and get used to it...that's what I am told each time I throw a hissy fit 'Get used to it...' And that comes right from Sophia in those moments. Boy does she have a sense of humor
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Post by Wunderkind on Jun 9, 2008 20:28:00 GMT -5
Oh, I may be no help because I am so d**n wishy washy, but let's just say I am and be done with it. I am indecisive as hell, which works to my advantage, especially given my aura. When I think of scenario, it happens whether I want it or not, or whether the unfortunate entity wants it or not. Just BOOM, my way whether it actually happens to be my way. For example, Eternity in a tutu. Not pleasant for either or us, and quite frankly would become more unpleasant for me given her wrath. xD But, once you think it up... x3
I suppose it isn't a matter of will, I can be easily influenced at times so it can't JUST be will. It's a matter of long term focus with low energy, or short term focus with high energy- and what lies in between.
Short term focus: Think of it like a child: I WANT THAT, I WANT IT NOW, WAAAAHHHH. A large sum of energy confined to a short (though it can seem to go on for days) amount of time.
Long term focus: Getting through the school year sucessfully. Homework, tests, studying for both, tutoring when needed, sleeping, have a social life. And eventually, surviving to see the summer.
A barrier that is STF is something for immediate perril. OMG, he's got a gun! Defend! And the like. A barrier that is LTF is something for eventual peril or even unrelenting peril. Constant preprarations, energy constantly being driven to one purpose for an undefined period of time. Brick by brick, over and over, etc.
For the physical, you really need LTF, STF just doesn't cut it in most situations. To make things less stressful/overwhelming, you can make a plan of STF. Sewn together, they naturally create the bigger picture of LTF.
For example (I love examples, don't you), I got sick of the clutter and the animal hair/dust was starting to give me allergies! I have never been allergic to anything in my life! So, my mom and I basically tore about the room, moving furniture, frebreezing, vacuuming, dusting, the whole nine yards. I am easily overwhelmed, so things were tackled in STF format. First one little section of the room, which was allowed to infringe on the others, and then working our way down. The room was cleaned in about 3-5 days, making the STF goals fit into the LTF goal.
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Post by KG on Jun 10, 2008 0:22:52 GMT -5
Thanks Mem,
Now I know why I was always an under achiever. I do have trouble with long term focus. If there is just one big test every now and then, I always do well, but those daily grades... were always pulling down my average. The exceptions being classes I liked. I actually made better grades on difficult classes, than on easy ones. I hate busy work. I enjoy research papers, but not copying my spelling words a dozen times.
I can see this in my life and the problem is clear. Using your example, is perfect because it relates to one of my huge problems, housekeeping! I have 9 rooms, amd I agree that it would take three to five days each to really organize them. When I got finished I would have a lot of stuff I still don't know what to do with, but lets say I find a place to put the excess stuff, where at least we aren't tripping over it. 9 rooms at 3-5 days each is 27 to 45 days. However in 45 days time it would be to do over again. I've tried this before and actually what you have to do is pick up and do basic little things in each room, and do deep cleanings of each room, on a monthly or bi monthly schedule.
I think my problem is that I don't want to spend all my time cleaning, only to get unsatisfactory results because of the clutter which I feel there is no cure for. So after a while I get disgusted and just say screw it. Then I realize that I can't get anything else done, or really enjoy my life, and neither can anyone else if the house looks like it has just hosted a frat party.
I know that hard work is thought to be one answer to house cleaning. None of the good housekeepers I know rely completely on hard work though. I mean they clean... they do things like scrub corners with tooth brushes, but they aren't bothered with clutter. They have another solution, they stick up for their space and double dare their families to make a mess.
They get this really screwed up look on their face when anyone does ANNNNYTHINNNG to disrupt the flow of chi or whatever. Their family members have enough respect, or are terrified enough of what follows the screwed up mom face, to get their dirty clothes out of the living room, or find a place to put the stuff they bought at the store. Now my problem is that whatever it is these women do to their families to make them fear and respect, is something they don't do in front of company... I have no idea what this is, but it must be awful. I think what I am saying here has to do with will too... the will to complain when someone strews crap all over the living room, or the will/energy/time to pick it all up for the millionth time both escape me at times, and I just let it all happen. I don't think I can be that awful, to terrify my family into picking up after themselves. When I do get up nerve to say something it usually results in my getting really angry and then backing down, and appologizing for some evil rant, which hardly made sense or seemed reasonable. I can't figure out how to do the thing with the screwed up face. I have tried, but they either don't notice, or they don't care.
I've gone to friends houses, (the ones who know how to make the screwed up face) and cleaned for them when they were sick. It is so easy to clean their houses. I mean I could give them a top to bottom cleaning in a matter of hours. I actually love to clean their houses, but when I go home, I don't even know where to start.
I'd really like for someone to take notice when I am ticked off, whether the reason is house keeping or otherwise, and try to do better, instead of just ignoring me and doing as they please. Overall I don't know how to make others respect my position. I am a push over. Everyone loves me as long as I don't complain, but they don't respect me. When I complain they just get mad and leave their crap in the middle of the floor and some people think they have a right to pile four boxes on top of each other in the living room, and no one is supposed to even touch them. That is where they belong from then on.. I think these things do not belong in my living room, but I can't say that. I just suck it up and walk around the piles of stuff. No one seems to understand that is why the Living room needs cleaning in the first place, and that it isn't cleaned unless they move their stuff, no matter how much or how little I clean around it, it doesn't matter. It still looks screwed up with all that stuff laying around.
A gentle answer may turn away wrath, but it doesn't get you what you want. How do I get what I want? Not just in housekeeping but in general, How to you get people to co-operate, instead of them getting ticked off, or just ignoring you?
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Post by Wunderkind on Jun 10, 2008 15:17:37 GMT -5
Yeah, will is needed to keep things that way. For me, I've always been possessive. When I was a little kid I would bite people if they touched my things. XD I don't think biting would be such a good idea now though. LOL. I wish I could go over to your house and help you clean it, but my mom would find it odd if I asked her that. xD I AM getting my driver's lisence soon though, maybe I'll do it anyway. xD Oh, I know that look. My mom has it sometimes, but I'm an evil child so I don't normally fear it. I've got that look too, when the animals piss me off. Just ONE glance sends the dog running to her kennel, quite funny, really. xD Hum. The only thing that got my attention to clean up is when my mom told me that all the clutter made her want to take the car and run into a tree. Yeah, THAT was an eye opener. I don't give a d**n if you yell at me, I'll make your life a hell if you yell at me, but if you're honest like that you'd have to be a heartless tramp to not get it. xD So, I suppose you could tell them that the clutter makes you want to die. >.> They'd have to be heartless not to care then. But more importantly, it's not saying that you want to kill yourself if you don't. It's saying how much it honestly hurts you and how unhappy it makes you. Don't just say, "I'm sick of this." or "I hate this" or "It makes me so overwhelmed" because quite frankly people get trained to tune out those keywords. Say how it really makes you feel. Even get Gary to do it for you, how he feels it makes you feel. And quite frankly, if someone else's junk(7/10 it is just junk, junk, JUUUNNKK), is in my way I move it. I get tired of being curteous, especially if they just toss my stuff around too. If YOU want to clean the living room and THEY want to keep their stuff, then shove it in their rooms and they can deal with it however they like. If they complain, they need to rent a d**n storage space or get rid of it. Give it away to the homeless or something. Seriously, you're worth way too much to trip over someone's shit and get hurt, junk they cared so little for that they dumped it there in the first place.
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Post by KG on Jun 10, 2008 23:36:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips. I want to learn how to make the screwed up face though. The real problem is that though I used to have a strong will, my will has gotten weak, because others in my household are even more strong willed than I ever was, and the worst messer, and collecter of cumbersome objects is... well he shares my bedroom, and I would also like to be able to go to bed without tripping over stuff.
The kids might leave out a jacket, or a few pairs of shoes from time to time, but really my hubby has eight boxes of DVDs and Video games in card board boxes in my living room. He has a set of speakers still in the box, and a box with some kind of guitar band video game, and some other box of some toy of his in the corner of the living room. None of this crap has ever been out of the box, and really I dread when he does cause it will be even more messy than the two foot, by two foot boxes which they are currently in. He was on a diet recently, so he has three large cardboard boxes of various diet supliment pills which he thinks he must keep right beside him on the floor by where he sits at all times, in case he might need to pop a diet pill. He has dirty clothes on the floor in there and clean clothes on the back of the sofa. He has an exercise bench that I let him buy after setting the old one on the front porch and forbiding him to bring it back in, also in my living room... kind of in the hallway part... where I slam my knee against it every half dozen times I go down the hall. He keeps bringing in a cooler and filling it with ice and beer every few weekends, which he rarely drinks more than two of, but still he does this little ritual which makes an ungodly mess. I have no idea why he does it.
Overall he's done this to every room in my house except the bathroom, and the kid's rooms. Our office is almost too packed out to use anymore, so rather than move his stuff, he just hangs out in the living room now. I am sick of it, but he... well it is kind of like the old joke. Where does the 350 pound Bear put his stuff? Anywhere he wants to.
I admit I am not neat and orderly myself. I tend to leave things where ever I used them last, but I just don't have that much stuff. I can't find what stuff I have because ordinarily I would see my stuff laying out and put it away, but it gets mixed in with all his stuff and is lost forever. I am messy, and disorganized, also. I am not a neat freak, and believe me I wouldn't complain if this weren't so excessive. I am not high energy, and don't feel like cleaning around his stuff, or moving it all just to sweep the floor, then moving it back.
How can I exert enough will to get him to find a place to put his stuff. I wonder sometimes if he doesn't have some sort of disorder... or something like that. I also wonder if he does it as a way to control me. It feels that way, but he did this even when he lived alone so I guess not. It is annoying at any rate, and he never grasps that I am in the right about it. He just thinks I am a lousy housekeeper, and that it isn't his fault at all. He just keeps buying more and more stuff, and I have run out of places to put it. I am currently considering floor to ceiling book cases. I already have book cases all down the hallway, but they only go up six feet, and I have four more feet above that where things could be put.
He always says "when it comes to a test of wills, I will." no matter who he is dealing with that seems to be true. I can't win with him. I can argue till I am blue in the face, and even if his side of the argument is totally stupid, I usually loose. I've tried telling him how I feel, but he seems to think that I am the one who is inefficient and a slob, and there is nothing wrong with having boxes of crap laying around. It is the empy drink cans on my table that are the problem, not the empty gator aid bottles he leaves out that are unsightly. I could care less about either one, as those can be picked up and thrown out periodicaly without a row, but that perfectly good, and rather expensive technology that he leaves laying around is the problem. The only way I have ever been able to win, and this was only once or twice is to say. This is my house, this is how it is going to be, and if you don't like it you know where the freaking door is. I can't do this over tiny little things. I have to choose my battles, so I tolerate the clutter. I want it gone though, but without getting a divorce. It isn't worth that, and short of that, he doesn't seem to be motivated to even admit that I have a point.
In general this is just an example of the way it goes around my house, and I'd like some advice on dealing with strong willed people, and how to at least keep from getting run rough shod all over, by them.
Kim
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Post by KG on Jun 13, 2008 23:00:33 GMT -5
Sorry you guys. I really shouldn't complain like that. It isn't all like that. I think that is the thing with talking sometimes it comes out one sided. My family tries to be nice to me, but sometimes I have trouble saying what I want unless it is something hugely important. IF it is important, I have no trouble sticking to my guns, but if it isn't life or death then I just let stuff slide.
I think they are trying to be good, and they don't mean to exhaust me like this. Overall I think I am the problem because I just can't seem to get my point across sometimes. I also have trouble sticking to any sort of plan or program myself. I think I am weak willed on small matters, partly because I try to be "nice" about things... Also partly because every time someone asks me to do something I drop what I am doing to help them, or just talk to them because the seem to need that.
It isn't that people deliberately run all over me, it's just that I try to meet their expectations, without complaints, and then when I can't, I get frustrated, and complain a lot.
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Post by Wunderkind on Jun 19, 2008 20:58:50 GMT -5
LOL, ranting is just fine. A tad awkward, but I hope you feel better.
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Post by KG on Jun 21, 2008 0:35:08 GMT -5
I am trying to feel better, but overall I am starting to realize that I do this to myself. I am low energy, and try to just get along. unless there is something extreme going on, I just try to pasify the needs and wants of those around me. I don't always have time to satisfy the people who make demands, nor the energy, I just give them all enough to stave them off for a few hours.
I've had a lot of demands on me that weren't anyone's fault. It just got to be more than I could handle. I got help... I brought in David to help out and he was a great help. I am grateful for that, but now the crisis has past, and I need to sort of wrestle out a place for myself and my youngest. I need to do my own things that need to be done. I need to take care of myself for a change. Bear is listening, and trying to help me. He wants to know what is going on with me, and I am hard pressed to explain it... these people in my life had become the villians of the story, from my POV, but really they were just being themselves, and didn't ask anything unreasonable, it was just that when I added the demands of each person together it was more than I had to give at the time, in terms of physical, and emotional energy.
That time has passed. My father has passed on, and my mother needs and wants to be more independent. Bear can be more self sufficient, and really I think it is high time he help me. Devine is grown up, and taking care of her own stuff... and she always has really, and part of my stuff too. Now she is just doing her stuff, but that's OK because I don't have as much on me at the present time.
I still have plenty to do, because a lot of stuff has piled up while I was busy with all this other stuff, but the stuff that is left is my responsiblity. There isn't that much fun in what needs to be done, but maybe I can find some satisfaction in it. The past several years have been depressing, for me, as far as my physical life goes, but now is the time to let go of that, and try to find some new hope of the future... as far as the physical realm.
I thought I would get a lot more resistance to my need to take care of my things than I am getting. Overall I things are looking up a bit, and I hope that things will continue to improve. I am not necessarily improving but people are seeing that I have been stressed, where they didnt' notice it before, and they are starting to let up on me.
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Post by KG on Jun 22, 2008 21:51:54 GMT -5
I agree ranting is good, as long as you go back and look at it... having this all down in black and white, or green and yellow or red or whatever depending on the skin we use.... well anyway having it all wrote out I see how silly it sounds. Everybody's fault but mine... LOL I think it is time that I take responsiblity for my own well being as well as feeling responsible for everyone else's well being. I spend a lot of time telling other people that they are important, and I know deep down that I am important too, but really I don't act like it.
If I want to feel good, then I need to take time to take care of myself, and if I want other people to listen to me, then I need to speak up and make sense when I talk, instead of hinting around and expecting Bear to pick up on cryptic hints. If I hurt I need to learn to say ouch, instead of thinking to my self that I am tough and can take it... no matter what. Overall I need to stop limping around and whining like an injured dog, before someone desides to shoot me and put me out of my misery. LOL
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Post by Wunderkind on Jun 23, 2008 19:36:21 GMT -5
*Hands KG a cookie*
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